I believe Jesus said what is written in the Bible, for example because, if the message would be from someone else, he would have taken credit for the words to himself.
Why believe the "scholars"?
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If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That is so strange coming from TB. She swears that the verses in the Gospel of John, where Jesus says that he will be no more in the world, are literally true.
But she and other Baha'is will take all the verses that describe the events that happened after the crucifixion as being symbolic. And then there is another Baha'i that keeps posting a Baha'i quote that says that the Bible is a "sure" spiritual guide.
One thing for sure, people can make the Bible say whatever they need it to say.
johnpegasis7
New Member
There has been an interesting thing on Polish YouTube for a couple of years now, they are YT channels intended for Christians, in which messages are written from spiritual beings who have reached several prophets from all over the world,
Each message goes to more than 10 of these Christian channels..
It is supposed to be messages in which these beings, for several years now, have been speaking to a large prayer group that he is preparing for the great judgment, they wrote them various messages there, including apocalyptic ones, which they are expected to deliver soon,
But they say there are only days left until the big disaster...
It's interesting....
https://m.youtube.com/@WorldofPrayers
...
Each message goes to more than 10 of these Christian channels..
It is supposed to be messages in which these beings, for several years now, have been speaking to a large prayer group that he is preparing for the great judgment, they wrote them various messages there, including apocalyptic ones, which they are expected to deliver soon,
But they say there are only days left until the big disaster...
It's interesting....
https://m.youtube.com/@WorldofPrayers
...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't believe that the Bible is the exact words Jesus spoke because that would be impossible. Even if the authors of the gospel had known Jesus,, nobody could memorize what Jesus said and write it down decades later. At best, the gospels captured the essence of what Jesus said, IF those words were attributed to Jesus, but if they were not attributed to Jesus then they are only the words of the gospel writers.
Because they studied the Bible for many years. That is how they became scholars.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believe 'some' of the words in the gospel of John, such as about the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, because Baha'u'llah quoted certain verses, and because it aligns with what I believe to be the truth from the Baha'i Writings.
As I have told you many times, I don't believe that the verses about the bodily resurrection were intended by the authors to be symbolic. I believe they were written as if they really happened, but I believe they were fabricated stories of wishful thinkers who wanted to believe that Jesus came back to life, not true history.
I believe the Bible is a sure spiritual guide, if you can plow through all the made up stories and symbolism and not take that literally, such as a real lake of fire.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe even the devil says something right (Usually for the wrong reasons) sometimes. I haven't read Nietzsche but even he could have something worthwhile to say.
Muffled
Jesus in me
In the Bible it did not say that the resurrected Jesus had holes but that He had nail prints. Of course being the creator of all things, He can make those go away if He wishes.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I always believe what Jesus says since He is the Truth.
Of coure the great deciever is going to say many things right .. Propaganda is no good if the people listening know it is a lie .. and so a good propaganda network will tell mostly the Truth...
I always chuckle at the idea that some folks seem to have that Ha Satan is going to show up with Horns - Red Cape - and a Tail ... how silly right ? .. talk about underestimating one's enemy !
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
It is OK if it is your belief. It is not so for me and many others.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The OP asks if "Christ" came today, how would we know it's him. Jesus, it is said, had to go through all kinds of things to get people to believe he was the "Christ" or "Messiah".
The story of a virgin birth and a star in the sky guiding people to the place where he was born. Angels appearing and telling shepherds about the birth. Then Jesus starts performing miracles to prove that he was no ordinary man but was God's Son. And finally, he comes back to life after being killed. And he had to prove it was really him and not just a vision or a ghost.
But we are all depending on the gospel writers on having told us the truth about these things. And we also have to depend on them to tell us what Jesus said and taught.
Were the stories embellished? Were they true? For "true believers", it all has to be true. From there it goes down in degrees of belief until it gets to those people that don't believe any of it. Jesus would have to prove himself all over again... Walk on water, cast out demons, show the scars on his hands and feet.
But this thread was started by a Baha'i, what is he really asking? Since Baha'is believe their prophet, Baha'u'llah, was the return of Christ, what is it about him that proves that indeed... he is the "Christ"? Did he do all kinds of miracles? His followers said he did. But Baha'u'llah didn't want the focus to be on the miracles. So, what things did he do or say that proves that he is the return of Christ?
The main thing seems to be his writings. For Baha'is they are so profound and full of truth only a man from God could have written them. But, for some people, they weren't that profound. And even, concerning some things, not so full of truth.
So, for some, there is no proof. There is no way to know for sure he is the Christ. For true believers, though, they accept everything he said and did as the truth. Then it goes down by degrees from that. Some people believe a little of it. Some people don't believe any of it.
So, what's new? Just another religion making claims. Claims that some people believe, and others don't.
InChrist
Free4ever
Sure, the devil can speak truth; partial truth with a twist to lead astray, confuse, or condemn. According to the scriptures, the truth of Jesus is what brings light and freedom.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think the Bab was the Mahdi and I know Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ, but I am not as much of an expert as the other Baha'is on this forum.
I see both the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the return of Christ. There is always someone that prepares the way, as Elijah always comes first.
Matthew 17:11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things
In this age, there was twin Manifestations and it is foretold a Messenger would prepare the way for the Lord, which will happen quickly, it was only 9 years after the Bab gave the Message that Baha'u'llah was given His Message and 19 years when he publically declaredthe Message. The Message of the Bab was to prepare humanity for the promissed "Day of God"
Malachi 3:1 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty. (Two Messengers foretold)
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord
So the Bab was Christ who prepared the way and Baha'u'llah was Christ returned in the "Gory of the Father"
Mathew 16:17 "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works"
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I hope some Bahais with more knowledge about these things will, if required, confirm/correct what you have said.
Is it necessary that a manifestation of Allah must start a new religion? None of the prophets mentioned in OT started any new religion.
Why I write this is because Bahais do not accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a messenger of Allah since he did not start a new religion.
Then why did Bahaollah start a new religion, just to create conflict with Muslims? Was he not supposed to promote peace and brotherhood?
Is it necessary that a manifestation of Allah must start a new religion? None of the prophets mentioned in OT started any new religion.
Why I write this is because Bahais do not accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a messenger of Allah since he did not start a new religion.
Then why did Bahaollah start a new religion, just to create conflict with Muslims? Was he not supposed to promote peace and brotherhood?
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Mahdi or Christ in Bahai interpretation is one and the same "Spiritually".
The Bab was the Mahdi. Once He was martyred, then He was resurrected as Baha'u'llah, albeit Spiritually. Then, Baha'u'llah was that same Mahdi that the Bab was.
Likewise, there is only one Christ. When Jesus, the Christ was Martyred, He was resurrected as the Bab later. Then once the Bab was Martyred, He was resurrected as Baha'u'llah. I hope Bahai interpretation and understanding is now clear to you.
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
He will ban smoking.
The satan is using people to stop God. For example, satan tells people that smoking is good, so people would hate God, if He would ban the smoking.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Ha, ha. I have interacted with Bahais for upward of 10 years, but nobody has given me such an explanation. Are you sure you are following the dictates of your House of Justice?
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
You quote Malachi, but is it in context?
Malachi 2:11 Judah has been unfaithful. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the Lord loves by marrying women who worship a foreign god. 12 As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the Lord remove him from the tents of Jacob[c]—even though he brings an offering to the Lord Almighty.
3:1 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.
2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, 4 and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years.
5 “So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.
4 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.
4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.
5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”
Is Malachi warning them about somethings a couple of thousands of years later? Or... Is this a warning to the people at that time?