If Christ wasn't the messiah, what was he?

[Subduction Zone]

What am I wrong about? I said "regardless of who was the originator".

You post was about Trump. Do you not understand that there is endless evidence him? That he is not a decent human being?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You post was about Trump. Do you not understand that there is endless evidence him? That he is not a decent human being?

Your post #612 was not about Trump, it was about this.

"It's not simply about believing what someone wrote, it's a gut feeling about its worthiness. You must admit, that treating others as you want to be treated, forgiving others for treating you badly as you yourself would like to be forgiven for treating others badly (not that I think you may have ever treated anyone badly), etc., are inspiring attributes that any reasonable person may like to aspire to, regardless of who was the originator."

If Christ wasn't the messiah, what was he?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But I said "regardless of who was the originator".

These are the rules of most societies. They have nothing to do with Gods or messengers. In Hinduism, even the Gods follow 'dharma'. 'Dharma' is eternal (Sanatan).

Subduction Zone said: "You post was about Trump. Do you not understand that there is endless evidence (against) him? That he is not a decent human being?
Aup.: Even then, be it Trump or Putin, they are nothing other than Brahman.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

These are the rules of most societies. They have nothing to do with Gods or messengers. In Hinduism, even the Gods follow 'dharma'. 'Dharma' is eternal (Sanatan).

Who are you to say that the spirit of the quote "treating others as you want to be treated, forgiving others for treating you badly as you yourself would like to be forgiven for treating others badly" was not from a verbal tradition of some earlier avatar of God? This has nothing to do with the rules of societies.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This has nothing to do with the rules of societies.

It is the rule of societies. Those who transgress it always end up poorly.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It is the rule of societies. Those who transgress it always end up poorly.

I understand that national laws are the rules of society, but you've lost me when you say that religious teachings such as 'love your neighbor as yourself' are the rules of society?

 

[Spice]

I understand that national laws are the rules of society, but you've lost me when you say that religious teachings such as 'love your neighbor as yourself' are the rules of society?

I think I get it. Although many, including myself, see this as a rule, or law, from God, the evidence of its effectiveness is in the results of societal use. Through society's success and failure we see what is good, and for believers, God is good, so His laws come to us as proven good by society.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think I get it. Although many, including myself, see this as a rule, or law, from God, the evidence of its effectiveness is in the results of societal use. Through society's success and failure we see what is good, and for believers, God is good, so His laws come to us as proven good by society.

Yes, I am aware of God's laws of karma, cause and effect, what one sows, so do they reap, and therefore what happens in society life is God's laws in action, if that is what he meant?

 

[firedragon]

Hi everyone, I'm Jewish, and I'm here to engage in a respectful and open discussion about the role of Jesus Christ. As someone who doesn't believe in Christ, I hold the perspective that both Christianity and Islam have been orchestrated by God to spread monotheism.

Recently, I had a thought-provoking discussion with a spokesman from a Christian institute on youtube, and it led me to ponder how difficult to discern Christ's true nature without understanding Hebrew.

Just for the sake of discussion, if Christ wasn't the Messiah, what was he?

I do apologize if anyone is offended, but I think we should have an open, respectful, and tolerant discussion about anything.
I look forward to hearing different perspectives and engaging in a thoughtful exchange of ideas.

From a completely naturalistic point of view, IF he was not the messiah, he was a rebel leader according to some scholars who take that approach. he was a rebel, he had a movement against Rome, they caught him and killed him as they did with many other rebel leaders.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I understand that national laws are the rules of society, ..

National laws may be different from social laws, particularly in countries which have many religious and ethnic societies. For example, India.

 

[Aupmanyav]

From a completely naturalistic point of view, IF he was not the messiah, he was a rebel leader according to some scholars who take that approach. he was a rebel, he had a movement against Rome, they caught him and killed him as they did with many other rebel leaders.

Not just against Rome, against the authorities in Judaism too, like 'Bring down everything, social., political, and accept my sovereignty'.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Not just against Rome, against the authorities in Judaism too, like 'Bring down everything, social., political, and accept my sovereignty'.

Forgive him Lord, for he know not what he saith.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

National laws may be different from social laws, particularly in countries which have many religious and ethnic societies. For example, India.

Ok, but karma is always at work, sometimes in sync with the national laws, and with the social, sometimes one or the other or both or neither. At the end of the day, karma's workings are immutable and just.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ok, but karma is always at work, sometimes in sync with the national laws, and with the social, sometimes one or the other or both or neither. At the end of the day, karma's workings are immutable and just.

That is the theist view. My view is that there is not transfer of karma to a reincarnation, because I do not believe in soul or reincarnation. Karma can have affects in this life, but not necessarily. Sometimes murderers escape punishment.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is the theist view. My view is that there is not transfer of karma to a reincarnation, because I do not believe in soul or reincarnation. Karma can have affects in this life, but not necessarily. Sometimes murderers escape punishment.

Existence as a whole is continuous, referring to your belief that something, eg., a human life, with all its present and continuing karmic existing energies can suddenly cease and disappear from existence completely without any further appearance or consequence, this is not sound reasoning imho.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Existence as a whole is continuous, referring to your belief that something, eg., a human life, with all its present and continuing karmic existing energies can suddenly cease and disappear from existence completely without any further appearance or consequence, this is not sound reasoning imho.

Find it hard to accept? It bombs your ego? I understand.
Species Homo sapiens is just about 300,000 years old out of the 13.8 billion years after 'Big Bang/inflation', i.e., 0.002174% of the time.
Nature did perfectly well without us for all that time. We were not created on the sixth day after creation by any God.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Find it hard to accept? It bombs your ego? I understand.
Species Homo sapiens is just about 300,000 years old out of the 13.8 billion years after 'Big Bang/inflation', i.e., 0.002174% of the time.
Nature did perfectly well without us for all that time. We were not created on the sixth day after creation by any God.

So now you seem to be implying that life on this planet, in this star system, in this universe, at this time, is all there ever in time and space?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who said that? There may be life in many other planets of other systems in the 80 billion galaxies that are supposed to exist. But we cannot reach them even by signals, what to talk of a face to face meeting. Nothing else has ever been evidenced.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Who said that? There may be life in many other planets of other systems in the 80 billion galaxies that are supposed to exist. But we cannot reach them even by signals, what to talk of a face to face meeting. Nothing else has ever been evidenced.

So are you aware if these other planets, star systems and galaxies share any underlying common energy field, and if so, what is its nature?
Hint, long before modern science, ancient peoples knew there was an underlying omnipresent spiritual energy/atma.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So are you aware if these other planets, star systems and galaxies share any underlying common energy field, and if so, what is its nature?
Hint, long before modern science, ancient peoples knew there was an underlying omnipresent spiritual energy/atma.

1. Read Brahma Sutras: https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_0/Brahma_Sutra.pdf

"Brahmānanda paramsukhadam kevalam gnānamurtim,
dvandvātītam gagansadrisham tattvamasyādilakshyam;
ekam nityam vimalāchalam sarvadhīsākshibhūtam,
bhāvātītam trigunarahitam sadgurum tam namāmi."

(I prostrate myself before that Guru, the Existence, devoid of the three gunas, beyond comprehension, the witness of all mental functions, changeless and pure, one and eternal, transcending the pairs of opposites, expansive like the sky, reachable through the sentences like ‘Thou art That’, the Mass of Absolute Wisdom.)

devoid of the three gunas: Sattva (truth/good), Rajas (possession/maintainance), tamas (bad/destruction)

2. 'Atma' does not mean 'soul'. That is 'atmā' (note the elongation of 'a' at the end). 'Atma' means any 'self', whatsoever, could be of a living being, animal, vegetation or any non-living substance.