If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[psychoslice]

The moon is made of cheese...

Ha ha, I love you humor, yea yea baby.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Nirvana is not realized through any mental experience....but through the cessation of thought....

This is just plain wrong. Nirvana is realised through INSIGHT. For example insight into the 3 marks in the suttas, and insight into sunyata in the Heart Sutra.

Why do you keep making stuff up like this? It's either willfull ignorance or dishonesty.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

In quantum or particle physics, the nature of reality is determined by the manner in which we choose to look at it. Thus if nobody looks, it has no definite properties (the moon isn't there if nobody looks).

I am not actually requiring a response from you LegionOnomaMoi, but a note to myself and others who may grok it....this may be relevant in an analogous way to what we have been trying to explain....when the mind is still and not conceptualizing (looking), something totally and unspeakably glorious is realized.... For when the mind looks and thinks about an object, it is generating interference wrt the energy environment at that level which creates a dualistical interaction...when the mind is still the energy pattern forms in a way undisturbed by the mind...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This is just plain wrong. Nirvana is realised through INSIGHT. For example insight into the 3 marks in the suttas, and insight into sunyata in the Heart Sutra.

Why do you keep making stuff up like this? It's either willfull ignorance or dishonesty.

So what and who is it that has the insight and what is the insight?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Thank goodness you are here to set us all straight, Ben D. We are so blessed to be in such an august presence.

Yes, I so look forward to the sermons.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So what and who is it that has the insight and what is the insight?

There is no "who", just the quality of prajna/panna or wisdom. And I just told you what the insight is into, 3 marks or sunyata, different ways of saying the same thing in different schools. You don't have to agree with it, but this IS what Buddhism teaches.

We've been through all this before many times, and you can easily look this stuff up to confirm what I am saying. And yet you STILL insist on misrepresenting Buddhist teachings. So it clearly isn't ignorance, it's just plain dishonesty. Like with your tiresome new-age chum, the perpetual conman. You are like a pair of dodgy used-car salesmen, continually hijacking threads to sell your snake-oil.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There is no "who", just the quality of prajna/panna or wisdom. And I just told you what the insight is into, 3 marks or sunyata, different ways of saying the same thing in different schools. You don't have to agree with it, but this IS what Buddhism teaches.

We've been through all this before many times, and you can easily look this stuff up to confirm what I am saying. And yet you STILL insist on misrepresenting Buddhist teachings. So it clearly isn't ignorance, it's just plain dishonesty. Like with your tiresome new-age chum, the perpetual conman. You are like a pair of dodgy used-car salesmen, continually hijacking threads to sell your snake-oil.

But I am missing something....if there is no who who has the perception, what has the perception?

 

[godnotgod]

But I am missing something....if there is no who who has the perception, what has the perception?

That and the perception are one and the same. There is no perceiver of the perception.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Exactly so. But you will have to stop clinging to all your beliefs and concepts, "God", "Brahman", "Cosmic Consciousness", "Ultimate Reality", all of it. Can you do it?

I don't have any conceptions about Brahman, Tao, and Nirvana, but I use words in common usage that represent the reality which is present when the mind is still...All my words are used as an expedient to convey to you the thinking mind will never realize enlightenment...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That and the perception are one and the same. There is no perceiver of the perception.

I understand that....but Rick is saying Nirvana is an experience... and experience implies an experiencer...but he says there is no one when I asked him.. See my perplexity?.

 

[atanu]

An insightful conclusion.

I know the best that there is no who. I tell you I know the best that there is no knower. I have the right insight that there is no basis for this insight.

 

[godnotgod]

I understand that....but Rick is saying Nirvana is an experience... and experience implies an experiencer...but he says there is no one when I asked him.. See my perplexity?.

Oh. Something he needs to come to grips with, then.

 

[godnotgod]

This is just plain wrong. Nirvana is realised through INSIGHT. For example insight into the 3 marks in the suttas, and insight into sunyata in the Heart Sutra.

How can you have insight when the mind is not still?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oh. Something he needs to come to grips with, then.

I am very patient..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

How can you have insight when the mind is not still?

Insight is another word for perception or understanding.....and these concepts imply duality and not non-duality...

 

[atanu]

At first, some more superficial thinkers castigated me for insisting that self and personality are in fact real and not illusory. That stance didn't go over too well.

Huh huh?

Then, quite unexpectedly, a very wise and knowledgeable Buddhist came in and explained the doctrine in a way that made perfect sense. It matched, more or less, what I was trying to tell folks. As best as I can recall he outlined that the idea of a changeless self is an illusion and that if there is anything at the core of being it is in perpetual change.

I am surprised. Wisdom? In this perpetual change?
......

Tsunami is a flux. Ocean is a flux. Take a piece of red hot iron piece and rotate in various ways and you will get a picture of flux. All flux have basis.

Our mind is the flux. When it is realised that mind is a bundle of thoughts and when the mind 'is not' .... when In perfect meditative stillness .... what flux remains?

What's the basis of all flux?

'Insight'? So, isn't that the basis?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well I was a bit skeptical too at first atanu .....but because it was sudden, and the Buddhist was very wise and knowledgeable, and the explanation was along the same lines of his own thinking, and that it made perfect sense....you couldn't make thus stuff up... Haha...

 

[godnotgod]

[QUOTE="atanu, post: 4827169, member: 25513"
Our mind is the flux. When it is realised that mind is a bundle of thoughts and when the mind 'is not' .... when In perfect meditative stillness .... what flux remains?
[/QUOTE]

Herein lies The Changeless.

 

[godnotgod]

I am very patient..

 

[YmirGF]

Huh huh?



I am surprised. Wisdom? In this perpetual change?
......

Tsunami is a flux. Ocean is a flux. Take a piece of red hot iron piece and rotate in various ways and you will get a picture of flux. All flux have basis.

Our mind is the flux. When it is realised that mind is a bundle of thoughts and when the mind 'is not' .... when In perfect meditative stillness .... what flux remains?

What's the basis of all flux?

'Insight'? So, isn't that the basis?

How to describe. Only 1:48 am... still early.

Even in deep meditation one is still at the mercy of preconceptions and expectation. You experience, for the most part, precisely what you expect, blissfully unaware of what lies beyond current comprehension. A loop of a sorts forms between expectation and experience supporting beliefs with affirmations of their validity, cementing the ideas into certainty. This feedback loop is a very tough nut to crack. There is much beyond the stillness and the silence but it is incredibly difficult to express this knowable, but undefinable, feature of reality in verbal terms. Currently, there are no words or verbal expressions that encompass the magnitudes of experience that are available directly as awareness naturally expands, touching and changing all in its wake, much like how we subtly alter the world around us as we pass through it during our busy days.

My best advise to those who are fascinated by the stillness and the silence is to be attentive. Pay attention and listen to the silence. Eventually you just might hear something in that silence. At first, it will seem to be no more than a whisper of a whisper, coming from all around you but also from nowhere in particular. In some ways, the stillness and silence is a doorway. A hub, if you like, through which many tantalizing adventures in consciousness can be known. But, if you are happy at the doorway, stay as long as you like. It's all good.

2:27 am... not bad.