If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[godnotgod]

Sad ending....happy ending....what's not to like...or dislike..

I hope you did not misconstrue the meaning. The 'Buddha on the road' is the seeker becoming the Buddha, which is an illusion, since the nature of the Buddha is that which is Unborn.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I hope you did not misconstrue the meaning. The 'Buddha on the road' is the seeker becoming the Buddha, which is an illusion, since the nature of the Buddha is that which is Unborn.

You think too much....the Buddha on the road does not feel he is an illusion....only when truly enlightened is it revealed to have been an illusion..

 

[godnotgod]

You mean it's not just pure nothingness?

It is That which does not change, which is Unborn, acting as if it changes and interacts. It is fluctuations in the Unified Field, acting as if the mass of the atom is real. It is none other than The Absolute, putting on that it is the myriad Universe; Absolute Nothingness, putting on that it is Absolutely Everything. And you are That, pretending you are not That.

 

[godnotgod]

You think too much....the Buddha on the road does not feel he is an illusion....only when truly enlightened is it revealed to have been an illusion..

What I said....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What I said....

I think you may have killed that Buddha on the road Rick O'Shez prematurely....so it may require another reincarnation...

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is That which does not change, which is Unborn, acting as if it changes and interacts. It is fluctuations in the Unified Field, acting as if the mass of the atom is real. It is none other than The Absolute, putting on that it is the myriad Universe; Absolute Nothingness, putting on that it is Absolutely Everything. And you are That, pretending you are not That.

It is the nature of the universe to "act" and to "play" and to "pretend" and to "fluctuate". Those are all interactions. The universe is the inter-actor. I see you as trying to explain away these interactions by claiming they are mere illusions....but illusions are interactions too. You can pretend the universe doesn't exist all you want, but you will never take that play out of it. You can't stop the actor from acting. What do you think those fluctuations are, nothing? Nonsense.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would alter that description to say that ..

Say whatever, always try to support it with proof, or say that you are making your reasoned guess.

What do you think those fluctuations are, nothing? Nonsense.

It is non-sense if you know from where what is causing these fluctions, arose? If it is eternal then why? 'I do not know' is still the best answer.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is non-sense if you know from where what is causing these fluctions, arose? If it is eternal then why? 'I do not know' is still the best answer.

I agree. Thats why I don't make any claims to know where those interactions or fluctuations come from, only that they do exist. It is best to just say "I don't know". Actually, I don't think human brains have evolved enough to know such things. We are just not smart enough...at least not yet.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No problem with evolution. It is a question of time. The next gen will know more than us, just as we know a few things better as compared to the past generations. Natural progression.

 

[godnotgod]

It is the nature of the universe to "act" and to "play" and to "pretend" and to "fluctuate". Those are all interactions. The universe is the inter-actor. I see you as trying to explain away these interactions by claiming they are mere illusions....but illusions are interactions too. You can pretend the universe doesn't exist all you want, but you will never take that play out of it. You can't stop the actor from acting. What do you think those fluctuations are, nothing? Nonsense.

Yes. All of it is paradoxical nonsense to the rational mind, because the rational mind is still trying to 'figure it out', when there is nothing to figure out.

You are missing something very important: since the Universe is Everything there is or can possibly be, it is The Absolute. Being The Absolute, there is no relative 'other' to which it can be compared, nor with which it can 'interact'. The net effect of what you only THINK to be 'interaction' is zero change. There is no such 'inter-actor' of the 'interaction', in precisely the same way that there is no 'whirler' of whirling water in a whirlpool; no 'rainer' of the rain', etc. Illusions are not interactions. They don't exist. Where was there ever a snake that was changing and interacting? The material Universe which only SEEMS to be moving and changing is not real. Therefore, any change or interaction also is not real. Stop your mind and then you will see The Changeless; that there was no such mind which can be stopped to begin with. To stop and see The Changeless is to awaken to Reality from the dream you only think to be reality.

From the POV of the dreamer, he is the character he is dreaming. (2nd Level)
From the POV of the awakened dreamer, the character he was dreaming is not real. (3rd Level)

From the POV of your level of conscious awareness, there is change and interaction of things in a material Universe. (3rd Level)
From the POV of the next and subsequently higher levels, all such change and interaction are illusory. (4th Level and beyond)

 

[godnotgod]

I agree. Thats why I don't make any claims to know where those interactions or fluctuations come from, only that they do exist. It is best to just say "I don't know". Actually, I don't think human brains have evolved enough to know such things. We are just not smart enough...at least not yet.

What intelligence is required to know that you were dreaming when you awaken? That the content of your dream was an illusion? All that is actually required is for you to awaken. You don't KNOW that any such interactions or fluctuations do in fact exist. And so, in keeping with your logical conclusion to say 'I don't know' regarding their origins, it should equally be applied to not knowing whether they exist or not. All you can do is to be awake, and take note of what you see. The quality of the illusion may be such that it seems real. You can measure it and predict its behavior. Unlike an ordinary illusion (ie; rope/snake) which vanishes, the Universe does not vanish, all of which galvanizes your conviction that it is real. You are utilizing perceptual reality to determine its realness, but from the POV of Ultimate Reality, the only true reality, it is not.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What intelligence is required to know that you were dreaming when you awaken? That the content of your dream was an illusion? All that is actually required is for you to awaken. You don't KNOW that any such interactions or fluctuations do in fact exist. And so, in keeping with your logical conclusion to say 'I don't know' regarding their origins, it should equally be applied to not knowing whether they exist or not. All you can do is to be awake, and take note of what you see. The quality of the illusion may be such that it seems real. You can measure it and predict its behavior. Unlike an ordinary illusion (ie; rope/snake) which vanishes, the Universe does not vanish, all of which galvanizes your conviction that it is real. You are utilizing perceptual reality to determine its realness, but from the POV of Ultimate Reality, the only true reality, it is not.

Yes, I am using those same senses which the universe has given me to formulate my conclusions. If the universe had wanted it any other way, then I would not have these senses to begin with. You on the other hand are just making things up and the universe doesn't even support your own conclusions.

 

[godnotgod]

I think you may have killed that Buddha on the road Rick O'Shez prematurely....so it may require another reincarnation...

O'Shez, though sparkly and new, still had the fatal Knee-Jerk Syndrome passed onto him from Spiney, so yes, a reincarnation is in order. Only a small matter of vision correction would be called for.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, I am using those same senses which the universe has given me to formulate my conclusions. If the universe had wanted it any other way, then I would not have these senses to begin with. You on the other hand are just making things up and the universe doesn't even support your own conclusions.

I am not making things up. I am telling you what I see from a vantage point higher than that of conditioned awareness, which I have already experienced, and from which I know I have awakened, and what I see is not via the senses. As already pointed out, the senses are limited and applicable only to the context within which they operate. They are severely compromised when attempting to understand the true nature of things. Mostly, they are designed for survival within the environment the organism moves about. The Universe gave you (and other organisms) only what they required to live within the context of their environment. We now know that many of the things the senses perceive as real, turn out to be illusory. Science is just an extension of our sensory apparatus, but still cannot tell us what the nature of Reality is. This is the jumping off point for the mystic, who comes to the realization of the limited senses, and seeks a higher view, one without flaw or blemish. That view is before the senses; it is Pure Consciousness, unaltered and unconditioned, which just sees things as they actually are. The Universe DOES support my conclusions; it is Science which does not, because Science is still not in touch with the heart of The Universe, but only with its outward behavior and characteristics. Mystics all over the world and throughout history have also come to the same conclusions independently of one another, simply because That which is awakened in my universe is the same That which is awakened in theirs. IOW, it is a Universal Consciousness, and not a personal, conditioned view which varies from one individual to the next. Even Science has this problem, as there are at least a good 10 or so theories about the origins of The Universe which abound, none of them conclusive. But mystics have nailed the question centuries ago. When looked at beyond the superficial differences, what seem to be differing views turn out to be surprisingly consistent. Why? Because the nature of Reality is the same everywhere. It does not change. As the Hindus put it: 'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'.

"Nothing we see or hear is perfect, and yet there, in the midst of all of the imperfection, lies Perfect Reality!"

Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Master

 

[godnotgod]

Say whatever, always try to support it with proof, or say that you are making your reasoned guess.

Well let us take a look at the question more closely. My response was to what you previously stated, that:

"Any change anywhere is felt by the whole universe (however minutely) through gravity waves, cosmic rays, neutrino streams, etc. IMHO, that is the consciousness of the universe."

Are the waves, rays, and streams the 'consciousness of the universe', or are they merely the outcome of that same consciousness, which is actually That which is formless behind their manifestation, something I believe you would call 'Brahman'?

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, I am using those same senses which the universe has given me to formulate my conclusions. If the universe had wanted it any other way, then I would not have these senses to begin with.

You have senses to insure your survival as a biological organism in a world that changes and interacts. But to understand that all such change and interaction are in the first place illusory, a different kind of awareness is required. But until something within you prompts you to suspect the 'material' and changing world within which you live as being illusory, you will continue to believe that it is real via what your senses tell you. This is the Hide phase of existence. Embarking upon a quest for answers beyond what the senses tell us is the Seek phase.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

All is Brahman...seen and unseen, known and unknown....Brahman is ineffable....

 

[atanu]

I wonder what happened to the OP.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I am not making things up. I am telling you what I see from a vantage point higher than that of conditioned awareness, which I have already experienced, and from which I know I have awakened, and what I see is not via the senses. As already pointed out, the senses are limited and applicable only to the context within which they operate. They are severely compromised when attempting to understand the true nature of things. Mostly, they are designed for survival within the environment the organism moves about. The Universe gave you (and other organisms) only what they required to live within the context of their environment. We now know that many of the things the senses perceive as real, turn out to be illusory. Science is just an extension of our sensory apparatus, but still cannot tell us what the nature of Reality is. This is the jumping off point for the mystic, who comes to the realization of the limited senses, and seeks a higher view, one without flaw or blemish. That view is before the senses; it is Pure Consciousness, unaltered and unconditioned, which just sees things as they actually are. The Universe DOES support my conclusions; it is Science which does not, because Science is still not in touch with the heart of The Universe, but only with its outward behavior and characteristics. Mystics all over the world and throughout history have also come to the same conclusions independently of one another, simply because That which is awakened in my universe is the same That which is awakened in theirs. IOW, it is a Universal Consciousness, and not a personal, conditioned view which varies from one individual to the next. Even Science has this problem, as there are at least a good 10 or so theories about the origins of The Universe which abound, none of them conclusive. But mystics have nailed the question centuries ago. When looked at beyond the superficial differences, what seem to be differing views turn out to be surprisingly consistent. Why? Because the nature of Reality is the same everywhere. It does not change. As the Hindus put it: 'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'.

"Nothing we see or hear is perfect, and yet there, in the midst of all of the imperfection, lies Perfect Reality!"

Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Master

I don't care about your personal "awakened" or "mystic" experiences for which you can provide no evidence. Okay?

 

[Runewolf1973]

You have senses to insure your survival as a biological organism in a world that changes and interacts. But to understand that all such change and interaction are in the first place illusory, a different kind of awareness is required. But until something within you prompts you to suspect the 'material' and changing world within which you live as being illusory, you will continue to believe that it is real via what your senses tell you. This is the Hide phase of existence. Embarking upon a quest for answers beyond what the senses tell us is the Seek phase.

Everything is illusory, but that doesn't mean it is non-existent or non interactive. It just means that something is not what it appears to be.