If God allows something then he approves of it, right?

[michel]

Life is a test. Those who choose to avoid the evil and wrong and submit thier will to God will have passed the test. That is the Islamic view.

That is also the Christian view; I would imagine it is the one common fact in most religions.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

That is also the Christian view; I would imagine it is the one common fact in most religions.

Not mine. Life is not a test. Neither is human life. It is an experience of freedom.

 

[michel]

Not mine. Life is not a test. Neither is human life. It is an experience of freedom.

Freedom from what ? To me it is the opposite - I feel as if I am captive somewhere where I cannot help but sin - and I long for the punishment to end.

 

[roli]

Okay, let's talk about free will then....what matters is that humans suffer, and God is letting them suffer.

You just said you wanted to talk about free will,yet you starty off by blaming God which excludes free will and volition places choice and the effects of them on God
When will man take ownership for their choices
If you violate any law,there is a consequence, will you blame nature if you violate the law of gravity by jumping from a 25 storey buiulding
Will you blame the cops than the judge for arresting you and ushering you to jail when you are carelessly driving or whatever the case that was the infraction.
regardless of what popular opinion regarding laws our world is govern and regulated by them and when we step outside of those laws there is a consequence.

Why would God say, that if you commit fornication you will suffer DESTRUCTION,because look around and see what sex outside of marriage does to our society,babies out of wedlock,abortion,aids,STD'S,
What does lying ,stealing,hating ,greed,coveting and the like really do for our society but create men to become more selfish,indulgent,greedy violent,self reliant people.

If anything, free will-causing-suffering only supports my arguement since free will supposedly is granted by God as part of our design. He would have known we would do bad things, yet he still allowed us to have the ability to do them...and thus he approved of giving us this power, right?

Man sinned against God,what that means is that when they did their God like nature which was how God oringinally created us ,that being in his image was stripped from them and spiritually they were separated from God and destined to physically die because of their sin (missing God's mark).
Try to force your child to always do what you want him to do,his nature now is to naturally rebell against authority,as is all man's nature now.
Your son/ daughter will usually only learn when they disobey,the greatest lesson in life is learning from our mistakes.

It absolutely amazes me that someone can think this way...such a guilt trip. So all the evil in the world is the fault of man? Who supposedly created man and his capacity for these evil deeds?

Disobey any law giver and tell me your not going to suffer,do you not understand that you or any of us can not change the fact that we will not always obey authority,or our own conscience,and we will pay a price for that defiance.
Have you never experienced this principal,it's interesting how we can with a resoning mind understand these principals in life ,but when God is brought in all reason goes out the window and we try to justify by blaming God
Try that with the Gov't when you violate their laws,you won't, yet we do it with God.

Look, either God can erase all suffering from the world or he can't. If he's ALL-POWERFUL then he can certainly find a way to make suffering not exist while letting humans keep their freewill. He does not, so we must assume that either he is
1) not all-powerful, or
2) wants us to suffer for some greater good.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
God made a way to escape and be transformed back into the nature of God,by receiving Christ.
But man has a problem with that,they want it their way,thus the freedom to choose is God given He won't force himself on any of us
2Pe 3:9The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.
Which is it?

 

[roli]

"If you accept these two things, then you must also accept that the only things that exist are things that God wanted and WANTS to exist. Things like evil, rape, suffering, murder, natural disasters, disease, David Blaine, extinctions, etc. If God didn't want them he could eliminate them all before they ever came into being. Ultimate power is also the ultimate eraser after all."

That my friend will be the ultimate outcome,when Jesus returns,salvation to those who have longed His appearing,but in the mean time we humans have been given the opportunity to alter the course that sin has caused by believing and receiving Christ and His role in coming to earth and bringing heaven on earth.

In doing so we inherit his nature and the hearts of men become transformed byt the power of the Holy Spirit.
There are cities experiencing that right now,92% of the population in a city in Columbia have become born again,jails where closed,drug cartel have been brought to their knees,why, people hungry for God sought His presence and God showed up.
I am actually watching some live footage of what took place.
But you won't hear about that in the news

 

[ApologeticsCatholic]

evil, rape, suffering, murder, natural disasters, disease, David Blaine, extinctions, etc .....Exisist mainly because of man, god has no choice as mean as that sounds, one phrase

"Free will" its your reponsibility, god gave us salvation, shall we except it or not

 

[Popeyesays]

That my friend will be the ultimate outcome,when Jesus returns,salvation to those who have longed His appearing,but in the mean time we humans have been given the opportunity to alter the course that sin has caused by believing and receiving Christ and His role in coming to earth and bringing heaven on earth.

In doing so we inherit his nature and the hearts of men become transformed byt the power of the Holy Spirit.
There are cities experiencing that right now,92% of the population in a city in Columbia have become born again,jails where closed,drug cartel have been brought to their knees,why, people hungry for God sought His presence and God showed up.
I am actually watching some live footage of what took place.
But you won't hear about that in the news

EXCUSE ME, the only time I ever used that phrase was quoting the original poster. Those are not my words!

Regards,
Scot

 

[Popeyesays]

That my friend will be the ultimate outcome,when Jesus returns,salvation to those who have longed His appearing,but in the mean time we humans have been given the opportunity to alter the course that sin has caused by believing and receiving Christ and His role in coming to earth and bringing heaven on earth.

In doing so we inherit his nature and the hearts of men become transformed byt the power of the Holy Spirit.
There are cities experiencing that right now,92% of the population in a city in Columbia have become born again,jails where closed,drug cartel have been brought to their knees,why, people hungry for God sought His presence and God showed up.
I am actually watching some live footage of what took place.
But you won't hear about that in the news

My friend, sometimes Pat Robertson is a biased newsreporter.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ronald]

Another thread that doesn't believe the bible! When God created the heavens and the earth, he said it is good. God's word was in the world from the beginning. in order to have free will you can't have a god who makes you do his will. He, God made provisions for man's fall. Which he fore-knew, not approving He could have taken away free will, but he did not. Rather He provided man a way to do his will. Redemption has been in the word of God from the beginning, the NT tells us that the sacrifice for sin was from the foundation of the earth.
Salvation/Yeshua is the redemption for all who "Shema v shemar" Hear and obey the "Word of God."
And remember, "Salvation is of the Jews."
Shalom