If God exists why is he hiding?

[javajo]

If God exists why is he hiding?

Hmmm...maybe he's playing marco-polo...or just he likes playing hide and seek! I know he likes that game 'cuz I read it:

1. Proverbs 8:17
   I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
   Jeremiah 29:13
   And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

 

[earlwooters]

If God made humans in his own image, and they turned out as greedy, sinful and arrogant as the human race is today, he is probably hiding out of shame.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

If God made humans in his own image, and they turned out as greedy, sinful and arrogant as the human race is today, he is probably hiding out of shame.

That is classic signature material, I like it!!

 

[AgnosticAtheistDebate770]

In my beliefs god is the" essence of life" So why some wish to personify the conept I can only say that god is life.You are life. You experinece god and he is realized. How you percieve god or how you place him is found in your own objectivity!

(This is not so much as debate as an honest question, that I wish you to answer without insult to me or my beliefs, as i am Agnostic/Atheist and I am open to all religions and am always interested in learning about them, so here I am simply trying to learn, so please know that if there is any delivered there is no offence intended)
I was wondering if, since your god is, as you say, the "Essence of Life", and as you said "God is life. You are life", are you saying that there is no all mighty powerful god in the sky, but we, each individual human, is our own "God" and we need to only see it in ourselves?

 

[Acim]

I realize the question was directed to elmarna, but I concurred with this point earlier, and am compelled to chime in on it.

To me, it is simple "yes" to you question, though I would desire to strike "only" from how you phrased it. As I understand things, if we truly saw and lived by idea that God is within, that is step 1, and is essentially 'all we have to do.' Step 2 is taken by God (Creator) and is the more significant step where hiding is no longer possible, and where true awakening happens. I don't feel 'there' yet, but have had experience (glimpses) of what that is (like).

 

[Blackdog22]

I already noted this earlier in the thread (#23), and magically, that was ignored. Perhaps no logical fallacies to be found?

Repeated from that post: The first shift in understanding that must occur, is you gotta kinda sorta realize that the body's eyes are not going to 'see' God. Just like the body's eyes cannot see math, nor reason, nor Life, nor Love. If you have the intellectual honesty to make that shift (or really allow for it), then I say it will be impossible to understand God as hiding. Seriously, knock and the door is open. It is that simple.

The kicker, I would add, is you (or I) don't have to call what is seen, "God." For ultimately, such a reference would be a symbol of a symbol, rather than direct experience. And for intellectual fun, you can reference it as FSM, or imagination, or delusion, or truth, or as I am. If looking once, with not so hidden agenda of, "this isn't going to work, who am I fooling? Stupid believers, who are self deluded," then yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if results of that are "hmm, nothing really came up, but I did try."

Have a sincere heart, a genuine disposition of finding inner connection, and willingness to go at it say 3 to 7 times (up to 1 week) and report findings then. It is plausible, to me, that you may see / feel next to nothing, but being the betting person I am, if one is sincere / genuine, I strongly believe connection and in-sight is predictable and in domain of "likely."

The problem is I can no longer come to God in complete and utter belief. I could only "pretend" to come to him genuinely, but that wouldn't be real would it?
You see, for me, God has hidden himself so well that I have yet to find him in all of my years on this planet. You say knock and the door is open and I ask what door? Where is this door? How do I knock? These are things that are never answered and they make the possibility of there being a door very, very unlikely. I could also say to you sit in this chair and point to the air. I could say it is always available to you to sit on. It still doesn't change the fact that you can't sit on it.

 

[Acim]

"Knock and the door is open" is, believe it or not, metaphor. The door(s) of perception. Akin to, before you even ask, Spirit will answer. Cause seriously, you go on a vision quest within yourself seeking Spirit / Divinity and there is awareness within you that knows exactly what you are up to while you are doing the thing called searching. I would say sense of 'feeling lost' and 'not really sure what I'm s'pose to be finding' is normal, at least it has been in my experience.

Coming to 'him' in a pretend sort of way can lead to 'really coming to him.' Again, part of Self knows your true intent, and pretend will be seen for what it is, if it is remotely genuine.

After a certain shift occurs (in perception), it becomes plausible that you pretend to be a body self. It will clearly dawn upon you, that you are just acting, or going through the motions, as physical world will become the metaphor. I'm serious, I've asked online more times than I care to count now for 'proof' of the human body, and have yet to have anyone really meet that challenge. I don't need proof to maintain the faith I have going on that I am in a body, doing body things, holding conviction in physical laws that appear to govern the body. At same time, it is an act, and I find no honest basis for reality in the physical anymore. It is like proof for body self is hidden from me, and yet, I realize body's eyes see body around me or as me by simply 'looking.' But I really really have to act and do a lot of pretending to deem there is objectivity going on here.

All this after a undeniable shift in perception that I truly believe I have provided methodology for how that can occur. And it is not from me, but more like from you, through me, if you understand how that shift could plausibly occur for you. If/when it does occur, you will have undeniable experience of it being 'from you.' Until that experience occurs, yeah, it will look a lot like you and me are separate and I'm speaking about something that seems imaginary and possibly delusional. If what I speak of seems deceptive or just not your cup of tea, then don't do it. Be you and stick to what works for you. I trust you are in Good Hands and will be perfectly fine if metaphorical door remains mysterious and elusive to you (for now).

 

[Thief]

I wrote this down...years ago.
I showed to my friends, and now I show it to you.

There's a lot of talk about a Door.
As if heaven has a small entry way, entered by few.
Let's run with that.

You came into this world naked. You will leave the same way.
Let's say further...you find your way to that Door.

As you overcome your personal embarrassment, you raise your hand to knock.

A voice behind you speaks....
'You don't want to do that.
Knocking on that Door is betrayal to me.'

Some people will then panic and throw themselves upon that Door...
and beat upon it.
Some people will gather their composure...in spite of being naked....
and raise their hand to knock again.

Again that voice behind you...
'You really don't want to do that.
oh sure, it is written...'knock and the Door will open'.
oh sure, the Door will open and They will let you in.
But...won't They will look you over...the same way They did me....
And won't They throw you out...the same way They did me?

'And then...you will deal with me....traitor!'

 

[Willamena]

I wrote this down...years ago.
I showed to my friends, and now I show it to you.

There's a lot of talk about a Door.
As if heaven has a small entry way, entered by few.
Let's run with that.

You came into this world naked. You will leave the same way.
Let's say further...you find your way to that Door.

As you overcome your personal embarrassment, you raise your hand to knock.

A voice behind you speaks....
'You don't want to do that.
Knocking on that Door is betrayal to me.'

Some people will then panic and throw themselves upon that Door...
and beat upon it.
Some people will gather their composure...in spite of being naked....
and raise their hand to knock again.

Again that voice behind you...
'You really don't want to do that.
oh sure, it is written...'knock and the Door will open'.
oh sure, the Door will open and They will let you in.
But...won't They will look you over...the same way They did me....
And won't They throw you out...the same way They did me?

'And then...you will deal with me....traitor!'

Who is the "voice" in your story? I take it to be your conscience.

 

[Willamena]

"Knock and the door is open" is, believe it or not, metaphor. The door(s) of perception. Akin to, before you even ask, Spirit will answer. Cause seriously, you go on a vision quest within yourself seeking Spirit / Divinity and there is awareness within you that knows exactly what you are up to while you are doing the thing called searching. I would say sense of 'feeling lost' and 'not really sure what I'm s'pose to be finding' is normal, at least it has been in my experience.

Coming to 'him' in a pretend sort of way can lead to 'really coming to him.' Again, part of Self knows your true intent, and pretend will be seen for what it is, if it is remotely genuine.

After a certain shift occurs (in perception), it becomes plausible that you pretend to be a body self. It will clearly dawn upon you, that you are just acting, or going through the motions, as physical world will become the metaphor. I'm serious, I've asked online more times than I care to count now for 'proof' of the human body, and have yet to have anyone really meet that challenge. I don't need proof to maintain the faith I have going on that I am in a body, doing body things, holding conviction in physical laws that appear to govern the body. At same time, it is an act, and I find no honest basis for reality in the physical anymore. It is like proof for body self is hidden from me, and yet, I realize body's eyes see body around me or as me by simply 'looking.' But I really really have to act and do a lot of pretending to deem there is objectivity going on here.

All this after a undeniable shift in perception that I truly believe I have provided methodology for how that can occur. And it is not from me, but more like from you, through me, if you understand how that shift could plausibly occur for you. If/when it does occur, you will have undeniable experience of it being 'from you.' Until that experience occurs, yeah, it will look a lot like you and me are separate and I'm speaking about something that seems imaginary and possibly delusional. If what I speak of seems deceptive or just not your cup of tea, then don't do it. Be you and stick to what works for you. I trust you are in Good Hands and will be perfectly fine if metaphorical door remains mysterious and elusive to you (for now).

You might enjoy benefitting from reading about Zen.

 

[atanu]

The OP assumes that the mind-senses can sensually see the source of themselves.

 

[Thief]

Who is the "voice" in your story? I take it to be your conscience.

I did not name it...on purpose.

In the scheme of the parable.....and in all fairness....I should confess....
it's my own handiwork......

That voice would be the 'voice' of the devil.
The Door would be the way into heaven.

But as you pointed out, that 'voice'....
could be your own.

 

[Willamena]

I did not name it...on purpose.

In the scheme of the parable.....and in all fairness....I should confess....
it's my own handiwork......

That voice would be the 'voice' of the devil.
The Door would be the way into heaven.

But as you pointed out, that 'voice'....
could be your own.

That's why I asked...on purpose.

Out of curiosity, and off-topic, do you consider yourself in a boat with the Satanists?
...sloshing around at sea.

 

[Thief]

That's why I asked...on purpose.

Out of curiosity, and off-topic, do you consider yourself in a boat with the Satanists?
...sloshing around at sea.

And the correct response comes from another parable...not my handiwork....

'let them grow up together and sort them at the time of harvest.
the wheat to the barn...and the tares to the fire...'

So no....God is not hiding....
His angel is right behind me.....watching me type this post.

 

[thebigpicture]

for what?

(Chuckles) C'mon now, waitasec...you ask me a question, and then you immediately make it obvious you're not seriously looking for an answer. Now, why on earth would I even waste my time?

 

[Blackdog22]

"Knock and the door is open" is, believe it or not, metaphor. The door(s) of perception. Akin to, before you even ask, Spirit will answer.

, Yes I realize it was a metaphor. I was participating in your metaphor for convenience purposes as I assumed you would understand what I meant in context of the metaphor.

As for the rest about not realizing your body exists.. I.. I am sorry, I just have zero idea about what your talking about. Do you not see yourself in the mirror? Do people not talk to you? Do you not feel pain when your hurt? Is your brain inside your body not translating all of this information that I am typing for you? Do you have a heart? Don't you think if you blew your heart out of your chest you would likely die? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

 

[Acim]

As for the rest about not realizing your body exists.. I.. I am sorry, I just have zero idea about what your talking about. Do you not see yourself in the mirror?

Not objectively. And not what I understand to be seeing. Akin to if I saw myself in night dream in a mirror.

Do people not talk to you?

In night dreams, all the time. Again, not objective.

Do you not feel pain when your hurt? Is your brain inside your body not translating all of this information that I am typing for you? Do you have a heart? Don't you think if you blew your heart out of your chest you would likely die? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

Again, all these are equally valid in night dreams, and thus not what I can agree is objective. It would be not having to use body sensations to establish evidence for the body. Akin to saying we can't use reference of God or god-like faculties (i.e. intuition, insight, bible says so) etc. to say this is evidence of God's existence.

I believe I am in a body, and that works (I think) well for me here in human land. I have no objective evidence nor proof for supporting this belief, and so it is ultimately a matter of faith. An assumption that the physical world is self evident.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe I am in a body, and that works (I think) well for me here in human land. I have no objective evidence nor proof for supporting this belief, and so it is ultimately a matter of faith. An assumption that the physical world is self evident.

I think the physical [material] world is self evident.
I like how you say 'human land'.

If we think about it, Adam was created here in human land, and as long as obedient to God Adam would have continued to live forever in the physical world here in human land.

According to Scripture Jesus had faith meaning not credulity [blind faith] but Jesus based his beliefs on logical reasoning on Scripture.

'Human land' according to Scripture is permanent. What is temporary is God's allowing a time frame for all of us to be born and choose who we would like to obey or listen to. The time is coming when all the wicked will be destroyed and only humble meek people will live in 'human land'.


[Psalm 37vs11,29; 92v7; 72v8; Prov. 2vs20-22; 10v30; 21v18; Micah 4vs3,4]

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And the correct response comes from another parable...not my handiwork....
'let them grow up together and sort them at the time of harvest.
the wheat to the barn...and the tares to the fire...'
So no....God is not hiding....
His angel is right behind me.....watching me type this post.

Your ^above^ post mentioning the 'time of the harvest' to me would mean a time at the end to gather in the 'wheat', or separate the wheat [sheep] from the weeds/tares [goats] of Matthew 25vs31,32,46.

The living righteous wheat/sheep go into everlasting life, whereas the weeds/tares/goats go into everlasting punishment.
The eternal punishment of 'everlasting destruction' as mentioned at
2nd Thess. 1v9; Psalm 92v7; Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30;21v18.

In Scripture 'fire' can be symbolic of destruction,
such as the lake of fire is the 'second death' not flames.
Everybody in the 'Bible hell' according to Rev. [20vs13,14] is 'delivered up' [resurrected], and then, emptied-out hell [gravedom] is cast into second death. A 'second death' of no further existence ever again.

 

[gnomon]

Do you believe in light? You couldn't read this without light. In 1John1:5 it says, "God is light". Science knows that light is energy. God is energy. There are two things in the universe: energy and "information". and information is the conformation of energy.
We got consciousness in finite time. In our brains, consciousness was caused by the capacitance and ectropy of the arising reticular formation of the medulla oblongata, which is simply the interference of information by virtue of the inevitability of orthogonality.
The First Law of Thermodynamics is, "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed". Energy is eternal. Certainly, in eternity it is inevitable that information would cause energy (God) to be conscious. Would you think that God doens't want boredom? That is why He doesn't interfere with free will.
To answer another question, information can be created and destroyed. That is what the Second Law of Thermodynamics says when it says, "In the universe, entropy always increases". The entropy of the universe, at any one time, is the proportion of photons to nucleons, that is, entropy is the extent of polarity cancellation. If we were energy we would never sleep. We are only information.
Information, the conformation of energy? Take a cloth sheet. It represents energy. Wrinkle the sheet. The wrinkles represent information. Pull the sheet out straight, and, "fump", the wrinkles become nonexistent. They "perish". Look in "Roget's Thesaurus", perishing is synonymous with becoming nonexistent.
Such a universal sheet exists on the eighth, ninth, and tenth dimensions; and, it is called the Ricci Curvature. Where there is no Ricci Curvature there is no matter. It says in the Bible, "Only He (God) is immortal"; and, "The soul that sinneth shall die". Crooks have profited on the fear of Plato's immortality of the soul.
There is the "aioniu amartematos", the "aeon of failure", mistranslated into English, "eternal damnation". A Greek professor told me that an "aeon" is only a hundred years. Spirit is matter in bent timespace, and, matter is spirit in flat timespace. Our soul is that portion of our being in the fifth dimensional spheres of bent timespace. Theoretically, -n+n=0, the soul is still perishable information.
A Jehovah's Witness told me, "Eternal punishment is infinite injustice. God in not unjust". By the way, if Jehovah's Witnesses get on your case, just tell them that you want to become nonexistent; and then, they will immediately go away. I am only 99.9990 % sure I can someday become nonexistent.

I don't believe in light, Even Six!