Buttercup
Veteran Member
I think I agree yet I'm not sure it's the answer I'm digging for. I'd like to ask more questions but don't want to derail the thread regarding God being all knowing. Thanks for your answers.
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If God is all-knowing...
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
Please. I invite you. Derail away. The immanent/imminent god is a rare perspective.I think I agree yet I'm not sure it's the answer I'm digging for. I'd like to ask more questions but don't want to derail the thread regarding God being all knowing. Thanks for your answers.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
OK.
I understand how God is imminent in the eternal moment yet it doesn't make sense to me that if this is the same creator of the universe who's omnipotent and omniscient, why he can't foresee the future. I'm not getting that part.
Because "now" is all that's real. "Future" is projected from now; "past" is proejcted from now.OK.
Now is the eternal moment.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Cool. I think I get it now. It's difficult for a time constrained human to understand that God can't see any further ahead than we can.
So, could this God foreknow that humans would kill each other when he/she/it created them?
Well, any talk of what "God" can see is myth. But indulging fron the perspective of the myth, I would say that there is no "foreknow" that isn't "know"; threre is no "will kill each other" that isn't a plan, until it comes to fruition; there is no "time constraint" when now is all there is.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Ahhhh. Well, if this "myth" of an Abrahamic God is defined as in the eternal moment, I like him much better now.
mr.guy
crapsack
Anticipation is a useless quality to someone who's omnipotent; if you can deal, literally, with anyting as it comes, what use is foreknowing a hopelessly simple task?
I would tend to think this a quality of a species more reliant on predicting the future for the sake of survival; if we didn't have to, we wouldn't be bothered with the future, either.
What's his/her motivation to forsee that?
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Not much.
Ok, I'll take it. Where can I pick up my omni powers?
I'm not sure there needs to be motivation, only that an all powerful being would "know" by default.
mr.guy
crapsack
A good rule of thumb would be anywheres that sells cheese breads. I get mine at 7-11.
"knowing" stuff is tricky.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Cool. I'm kinda salivating for a Caramello right now too.
Aint that the truth. I'm thinking this God dude aint such hot stuff after all.
mr.guy
crapsack
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Well, I don't necessarily believe in God anymore...at least not an anthropomorphic/Abrahamic sort of being. However, when I was a Christian, I expected God to know everything from eternity past to eternity future. This perspective knocks him down a notch or two in the power stud category.
mr.guy
crapsack
It sounds like god was supposed to be more of a perfect man than perfect god, no?
Buttercup
Veteran Member
I suppose the highest of standards are applied to God by most of us...especially perfection in all things. I mean, if you could create the universe all by yourself, I'd surely expect you to draw better.
mr.guy
crapsack
Forgive me for chopping this up so much, but self-indulgence demands it, here.
"Perfection" can be tricky, or so i'm told. I find that definition is usually best left in the hands of the fairer sex.
Divine inspiration, perhaps?
The problem most atheists have with an interfering god is with "drawing" what lines are necessary, or attractive for god cross. One would think it's all or nothing.
You can give god all the credit, but the perfect god takes all the blame, as well. Anyone who's still really worried about Him/Her being "good" (whatever that is) at this point can explain evil away with tolerance of homosexuals, chia pets, traffic lights, etc.
However, "knowledge" is difficult; there's a difference between information and the abstract inference of it.
"Perfection" can be tricky, or so i'm told. I find that definition is usually best left in the hands of the fairer sex.
Divine inspiration, perhaps?
The problem most atheists have with an interfering god is with "drawing" what lines are necessary, or attractive for god cross. One would think it's all or nothing.
You can give god all the credit, but the perfect god takes all the blame, as well. Anyone who's still really worried about Him/Her being "good" (whatever that is) at this point can explain evil away with tolerance of homosexuals, chia pets, traffic lights, etc.
However, "knowledge" is difficult; there's a difference between information and the abstract inference of it.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
The "drawing" I was referring to was the rudimentary stick figure skills of a certain person named Adam.
You have to ascribe some human characteristics to this God don't you? I mean if he/she/it created human beings there has to be a way for us to connect. Or, maybe that's my arrogance in believing a (possible) God could even care.
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tomspug
Absorbant
If evil is the absence of good, then it makes no sense to say that God can be both all good and all evil (or responsible for all good and all evil). Either he is responsible for one completely, the other completely, or neither...
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Then is it how "we" are defining omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?
Off the cuff when some tells you that "God" is omniscient you automatically get in your mind a god that knew and knows any and everything. Shouldn't we assume that this god "knew" what its creation would be like before it created the universe, space and time? Why do we classify this god as omniscient then put limitations on it when it doesn't appear to meet the standard, given its description in the books (bible/quran)?
Would it not be his will, the way things are now?
How could there be a struggle between this god and his creation (lucifer, satan, the devil...whatever you like to call it)?
Why would this god be upset and place any sort of rules and requirements on its creation if it already knows the outcome of all things with its creation unless (rumors of its power is highly exaggerated)? This type of action is futile.
OR......there really are no such things as gods, God, Good or Evil.........
Off the cuff when some tells you that "God" is omniscient you automatically get in your mind a god that knew and knows any and everything. Shouldn't we assume that this god "knew" what its creation would be like before it created the universe, space and time? Why do we classify this god as omniscient then put limitations on it when it doesn't appear to meet the standard, given its description in the books (bible/quran)?
Would it not be his will, the way things are now?
How could there be a struggle between this god and his creation (lucifer, satan, the devil...whatever you like to call it)?
Why would this god be upset and place any sort of rules and requirements on its creation if it already knows the outcome of all things with its creation unless (rumors of its power is highly exaggerated)? This type of action is futile.
OR......there really are no such things as gods, God, Good or Evil.........