If god knew.....

[search the scriptures]

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Psa 78:32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
Psa 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
Psa 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
Psa 78:38 But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
Psa 78:39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
Psa 78:40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Psa 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

 

[search the scriptures]

waitasec: " what happened to you happened to adam"

i broke a law without knowing... but was still by law guilty of the crime. did i think it was wrong/evil? no...
but the lawmaker thought otherwise, as well as the cop/judge. I was guilty, and justified by community service or payment. and the court got justice for the crime, and i won't spit on a sidewalk again.

adam at least was advised not to do something in particular, and did not beleive God, followed his desire to be "like God" and went against God/lawmaker

 

[waitasec]

waitasec: " what happened to you happened to adam"

i broke a law without knowing... but was still by law guilty of the crime. did i think it was wrong/evil? no...
but the lawmaker thought otherwise, as well as the cop/judge. I was guilty, and justified by community service or payment. and the court got justice for the crime, and i won't spit on a sidewalk again.

adam at least was advised not to do something in particular, and did not beleive God, followed his desire to be "like God" and went against God/lawmaker

you are comparing god's law to man's law?
doesn't god see the heart and intention?
didn't god know adam was in the dark?
yes, the god in your bible set adam up to fail.

 

[search the scriptures]

waitasec: "yes, the god in your bible set adam up to fail."

he set him up to win or fail - it was his choice. beleive or dont beleive

your choice as well

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Because there are no alternative categories(good/bad) before the knowledge of evil.
[one category- created state.]

add the knowledge of evil, you now know you know wether you are good, or you are evil.
[two categories.]

And thus sin was created by humanity, not by God.

 

[waitasec]

waitasec: "yes, the god in your bible set adam up to fail."

he set him up to win or fail - it was his choice. beleive or dont beleive

your choice as well

it is my choice to look at this fable as just that...a fable, a bed time story
you really take this literally?

think. how can someone understand what wrong means without the knowledge of evil?

lets just say adam had a choice as you believe. how then could he understand the implication of death?
how could he know what "you will die" means if he never experienced it...
he was the first... no one had died as of yet, so he never saw it. he was alive and the concept of death is somehow knowable because god said the word die?

 

[Twig pentagram]

If god/s knows the begining from the end then god knows that Adam is'nt real.

 

[JustWondering]

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Since Adam and Eve ate the fruit and lived on for hundreds of years and humanity exists to this day I guess that makes God a liar. He is also self admittantly jealous. He is also saddistic and violent. Why would I want a monster like what is described in the Bible as God to be real in the first place? It's actions and commandments do not reflect that of a loving/caring creator and teacher but that of a self absorbed saddistic tyrant that demands unquestioning, mindless obedience (which makes me wonder where you christians get this free will crap from). If it is real the only reason I would worship and obey it is out of fear. Not love. Not awe. Not out of respect. Just fear. Thankfully, the odds of such an unlikely being existing are very remote. The God of the Bible like all the other gods I have heard of is a human fabrication. I have experienced nor heard anything to convince me that an afterlife or anything supernatural exists. Why do you believe what you believe? Have you honestly ever examined your faith and beliefs to see if there is a reasonable justification for having them? Why not worship Allah or Krishna or L. Ron Hubbard? Why should I (or you) consider the God of the Bible more plausible then Zeus and the religion of the ancient Greeks? Because it just feels right? Thats not a rational reason to except mythical tales as fact. It makes sense to you? Maybe you should take an UNBIASED second look at your beliefs because there are MANY people who find no sense in your religous beliefs and dogma. If you want to believe that humanity is inherently flawed, evil and our only worth is found in groveling before and sucking up to some ridiculous criminally insane tyrant god then have at it. The fact remains that according to your own scriptures God created us as imperfect beings and punishes us for being imperfect beings. So that makes YOUR god either insane, saddistic or both. Certainly not a loving and caring creator.

Rant end.

 

[JustWondering]

And thus sin was created by humanity, not by God.

Sin = disobedience to god.
Free will = the choice to be obedient or not.
God created free will = God created sin.

If God so fiercely desires worship and complete obedience why would he purposely create beings that defy him?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Since Adam and Eve ate the fruit and lived on for hundreds of years and humanity exists to this day I guess that makes God a liar.

Did life not change for them after eating the fruit? Were they not afraid of God for the first time? Did they not have to deal with a new situation? Would that not be considered a form of death?

 

[JustWondering]

Did life not change for them after eating the fruit?

Last time I checked death = not living.

 

[waitasec]

Did life not change for them after eating the fruit? Were they not afraid of God for the first time? Did they not have to deal with a new situation? Would that not be considered a form of death?

i think it is a metaphor; once one gains knowledge you can never go back to being innocent...
death in this creation story doesn't mean death they way we think of dying rather not being innocent because of the realization of self and freedom of will.

notice, after they ate the fruit, they were not ashamed of the act of disobedience, instead they were ashamed of their nakedness...always thought that was strange

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Last time I checked death = not living.

That is the serpent's definition.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

i think it is a metaphor; once one gains knowledge you can never go back to being innocent...
death in this creation story doesn't mean death they way we think of dying rather not being innocent because of the realization of self and freedom of will.

In essence, death in this sense is an irreversible process, just like the standard definition is. Once you die, in either sense, you can't go back to living the way you did before.

notice, after they ate the fruit, they were not ashamed of the act of disobedience, instead they were ashamed of their nakedness...always thought that was strange

Is disobedience something to be ashamed of?

 

[JustWondering]

That is the serpent's definition.

What?

 

[Orias]

That is the serpent's definition.

Actually, its the realistic definition.

Death is not living. Otherwise it wouldn't be death. These things exist because of its Opposite.

Don't speak of it otherwise, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE TO NOT LIVE.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

What?

When the serpent told Eve that she wouldn't die when she ate the fruit, he meant physical death. When God said they would die, he didn't mean physical death. It was, as waitasec pointed out, a metaphor.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Actually, its the realistic definition.

Death is not living. Otherwise it wouldn't be death. These things exist because of its Opposite.

Don't speak of it otherwise, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE TO NOT LIVE.

Dualism at its finest. Yes, death is the opposite of life. But you can be dead and still live.

 

[waitasec]

In essence, death in this sense is an irreversible process, just like the standard definition is. Once you die, in either sense, you can't go back to living the way you did before.

in other words, the realization of self = sin

Is disobedience something to be ashamed of?

they hid because of their nakedness...
is being naked a sin?
why would anyone feel shame of their nakedness?

 

[waitasec]

Dualism at its finest. Yes, death is the opposite of life. But you can be dead and still live.

or
if you are living for the afterlife, you are already dead