"if God talks to you, you have schizophrenia"

[Unveiled Artist]

Consider this quote:

View attachment 54241

To what extent is this statement true???

I say to a very great extent

If I were to come onto RF and tell everyone that God talks to me I would be considered schizophrenic, and my role on RF would be that of a person who is schizophrenic - I would become Schizophrenic as that is how this community would understand me, including those who routinely talk to God...

I like this quote, there is a lot going on with it

This is what this quote has made me think:

There are socially acceptable ways of experiencing God and that there are other ways, which result in you being considered mentally unwell

It's a matter of normality

And normality is a matter of safety in numbers!

Billions talk to God

Yet only a relatively tiny number of people experience God talking to them

By "talk" I mean "directly communicate" - not literally speaking words at someone

Those who get to decide what is healthy or unhealthy - what is spiritual experience or a psychotic episode - always try to make their way of experiencing reality the only healthy one, and medicalise other ways of experiencing the same reality

The religious establishment and the medical establishment stand united in this, in a bizarre alliance of science and faith that is very telling of the true social function of both these institutions!

Of course, the experience of God communicating with you can be a symptom of a severe mental illness

However, if you believe that God exists and listens to you then I don't think you should write off all such reported experiences so very quickly. I don't think that is a huge leap to make!

I think there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence that God communicates directly with some people in such a way that others would consider them unwell, although I concede that the majority of such cases are likely to be some kind of mental illness

And I mean direct experience - not an awesome sense of seeing God at work in the natural world or having an amazing euphoric spiritual experience whilst attending church, and so on

By "direct experience" I mean "communication"!

And by "talks to you" I mean "communicates with you" in a more general sense

Just because some such experiences can be put down to mental ill health doesn't mean all of them can!

I'll say this to any person who routinely talks to God: Just because he doesn't directly communicate back to you in particular doesn't mean he doesn't communicate with anyone!

I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss

Or should at least keep an open mind...

And for the record, I no longer believe that God personally communicates with me, as I once did. But that's another story...

According to Society:​

1. A one-way direct line to God = prayer = normal and healthy​
2. A two-way direct line to God = schizophrenia = abnormal and bad​

That is what I think this quote can be boiled down to!

I think that psychiatry and the religious establishment want humankind to dismiss those to whom God speaks

I think they want to silence God, as they cannot control what God has to say in the same way that they can control what people believe and what God may or may not have said in the past - they don't want their monopoly challenging!

They wish to preserve the Status Quo and keep God's new word from human ears:

They are basically putting fingers into the ears of humankind so it cannot hear, and are drowning out the voice of God with hymns and mindless popular music so that any new revelation is rejected, or dismissed, or ignored, or ridiculed...

That's my take on this quote, anyway

Edit: and no, I do not claim to have any new revelation for humankind

Every single believer I've spoken to throughout the years say they hear god but through an audible voice but through signs, experiences, and scripture.

 

[Heyo]

Consider this quote:

View attachment 54241

To what extent is this statement true???

It wouldn't be too serious if those talking gods wouldn't frequently convince their listeners to kill a bunch of people.

 

[Mister Emu]

Schizophrenia is a specific mental illness and certain characteristics having been shown is necessary before diagnosis by a trained professional.

In no way can someone be said to be Schizophrenic solely on the weight of perceived divine communication.

 

[sun rise]

Are you a psychologist today?

I wound up in IT and am now retired but used what I learned about abnormal psychology while working for a living - some people, managers, fit into sociopathic behavior, for example.

Reality? Has there ever been information that has been proven to be received from "higher sources"? What information? What higher sources?

Proven in the scientific sense. Of course no because it does not occur in a lab on demand and repeatedly. Proven in the experiential sense: yes.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps in some peoples’ eyes. Not mine.

How would you know?

If it is a delusion, that person wouldn't believe it even if they were told and shown evidence such experiences arent unique.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Consider this quote:

View attachment 54241

To what extent is this statement true???

A professional cannot diagnose someone schizophrenic merely because they hear God's voice in an auditory way. The short answer is that for someone to be mentally ill, they must be dysfunctional, so a person who hear's God's voice but is functional is not considered mentally ill. Now for the long answer.

The criteria for a diagnosis of schizophrenia in the DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manuel, fifth edition)

• The presence of 2 (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated), with at least 1 of them being (1), (2), or (3): (1) delusions, (2) hallucinations, (3) disorganized speech, (4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, and (5) negative symptoms
  
  
• For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, level of functioning in 1 or more major areas (eg, work, interpersonal relations, or self-care) is markedly below the level achieved before onset; when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, the expected level of interpersonal, academic or occupational functioning is not achieved
  
  
• Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for a period of at least 6 months, which must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated); prodromal symptoms often precede the active phase, and residual symptoms may follow it, characterized by mild or subthreshold forms of hallucinations or delusions
  

It goes on, saying for example that other mental illnesses have to be ruled out and stuff, but that's pretty much the important items.

 

[rational experiences]

Science the status says it knows all things.

Science the status said once human parents origin human as humans all owned the exact same DNA.

Living mainly as bio water form all food supplied for life within heavens mass held water oxygenated body at ground state.

Not science in any format. Equal life no so called mental condition.

Science uses gases cold and burns them.

Burning in our heavens is held way above our head voiding.

Humans said holy mother earth womb holy heavens kept life safe.

Science however wanted to be a God proven today by his theme the God particle.

Liars. Science can manipulate information by cult group status controlled.

Irradiation as a brain prickling effect upon head was because lying science just a human thought about science for inferring to our heavens gases.

As God the stone was sealed. Not a gas.

So he confessed as a human and occultist that he irradiated burnt us.

So our mind became psychic. Changed by irradiation causes. Mass changed moment.

First hearing of fed back human voice caused as AI speaking. Of our own selves. Science designer machine human thinkers.

Most humans hear human voices speaking to them in brain feelings displaced by brain chemistry. Irradiated causes inherited.

Is medical.

Behaviour is controlled or unable to control is an effect. By causes.

To hear voices direct instead of psychic is an extreme irradiation by burning gases. Is not a mental condition is a cause effect.

If a Liar is human healthy designs machines and an innocent of no science awareness gets attacked it is virtually a scientist imposing science design into their mind psyche.

By forced effects. Conditions scientist. Easy to give it science labels to coerce public beliefs.

As if they own causes historic. They claim Right to re encode it. They claim the mind belief of who cares less.

To try to force us all to be scientific thinkers.

Why we said their term in review is an evil minded human family member.

The bible genesis was written advice that humans reheard human science speaking to them.

Terms of God which is heavenly gas changes.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Consider this quote:

View attachment 54241

To what extent is this statement true???

I say to a very great extent

If I were to come onto RF and tell everyone that God talks to me I would be considered schizophrenic, and my role on RF would be that of a person who is schizophrenic - I would become Schizophrenic as that is how this community would understand me, including those who routinely talk to God...

I like this quote, there is a lot going on with it

This is what this quote has made me think:

There are socially acceptable ways of experiencing God and that there are other ways, which result in you being considered mentally unwell

It's a matter of normality

And normality is a matter of safety in numbers!

Billions talk to God

Yet only a relatively tiny number of people experience God talking to them

By "talk" I mean "directly communicate" - not literally speaking words at someone

Those who get to decide what is healthy or unhealthy - what is spiritual experience or a psychotic episode - always try to make their way of experiencing reality the only healthy one, and medicalise other ways of experiencing the same reality

The religious establishment and the medical establishment stand united in this, in a bizarre alliance of science and faith that is very telling of the true social function of both these institutions!

Of course, the experience of God communicating with you can be a symptom of a severe mental illness

However, if you believe that God exists and listens to you then I don't think you should write off all such reported experiences so very quickly. I don't think that is a huge leap to make!

I think there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence that God communicates directly with some people in such a way that others would consider them unwell, although I concede that the majority of such cases are likely to be some kind of mental illness

And I mean direct experience - not an awesome sense of seeing God at work in the natural world or having an amazing euphoric spiritual experience whilst attending church, and so on

By "direct experience" I mean "communication"!

And by "talks to you" I mean "communicates with you" in a more general sense

Just because some such experiences can be put down to mental ill health doesn't mean all of them can!

I'll say this to any person who routinely talks to God: Just because he doesn't directly communicate back to you in particular doesn't mean he doesn't communicate with anyone!

I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss

Or should at least keep an open mind...

And for the record, I no longer believe that God personally communicates with me, as I once did. But that's another story...

According to Society:​

1. A one-way direct line to God = prayer = normal and healthy​
2. A two-way direct line to God = schizophrenia = abnormal and bad​

That is what I think this quote can be boiled down to!

I think that psychiatry and the religious establishment want humankind to dismiss those to whom God speaks

I think they want to silence God, as they cannot control what God has to say in the same way that they can control what people believe and what God may or may not have said in the past - they don't want their monopoly challenging!

They wish to preserve the Status Quo and keep God's new word from human ears:

They are basically putting fingers into the ears of humankind so it cannot hear, and are drowning out the voice of God with hymns and mindless popular music so that any new revelation is rejected, or dismissed, or ignored, or ridiculed...

That's my take on this quote, anyway

Edit: and no, I do not claim to have any new revelation for humankind

All I know is that to be honest I cannot explain my schizophrenia as schizophrenia unless it is an extraordinary coincidence.

 

[Kooky]

The quote is better in context:

"Mental illness" is an expression, a metaphor that describes an offending, disturbing, shocking, or vexing conduct, action, or pattern of behavior, such as packaged under the wide-ranging term schizophrenia, as an "illness" or "disease". Szasz wrote: "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia. If the dead talk to you, you are a spiritualist; If you talk to the dead, you are a schizophrenic." He maintained that, while people behave and think in disturbing ways, and those ways may resemble a disease process (pain, deterioration, response to various interventions), this does not mean they actually have a disease. To Szasz, disease can only mean something people "have", while behavior is what people "do". Diseases are "malfunctions of the human body, of the heart, the liver, the kidney, the brain" while "no behavior or misbehavior is a disease or can be a disease. That's not what diseases are."

- Thomas Szasz - Wikipedia

Correct, the proper terminology is "disorder".

 

[Heyo]

Schizophrenia is a specific mental illness and certain characteristics having been shown is necessary before diagnosis by a trained professional.

In no way can someone be said to be Schizophrenic solely on the weight of perceived divine communication.

A professional cannot diagnose someone schizophrenic merely because they hear God's voice in an auditory way. The short answer is that for someone to be mentally ill, they must be dysfunctional, so a person who hear's God's voice but is functional is not considered mentally ill. Now for the long answer.

The criteria for a diagnosis of schizophrenia in the DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manuel, fifth edition)

• The presence of 2 (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated), with at least 1 of them being (1), (2), or (3): (1) delusions, (2) hallucinations, (3) disorganized speech, (4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, and (5) negative symptoms
  
  
• For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, level of functioning in 1 or more major areas (eg, work, interpersonal relations, or self-care) is markedly below the level achieved before onset; when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, the expected level of interpersonal, academic or occupational functioning is not achieved
  
  
• Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for a period of at least 6 months, which must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated); prodromal symptoms often precede the active phase, and residual symptoms may follow it, characterized by mild or subthreshold forms of hallucinations or delusions

It goes on, saying for example that other mental illnesses have to be ruled out and stuff, but that's pretty much the important items.

You are technically right, I can't diagnose someone just on that one symptom.

But aren't you also alarmed when someone is hearing voices?
You call an ambulance if someone feels pain in their left arm and has difficulty breathing even though you can't diagnose that as a heart attack.

I'd urge someone to visit a psychiatrist if they hear voices.

 

[Secret Chief]

Correct, the proper terminology is "disorder".

He didn't like that either
From the same link:
" "mental illness" or "mental disorder" (the latter expression called by Szasz a "weasel term" for mental illness) "

 

[stvdv]

False

I do think that God told Thomas Szasz to say this

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are technically right, I can't diagnose someone just on that one symptom.

But aren't you also alarmed when someone is hearing voices?
You call an ambulance if someone feels pain in their left arm and has difficulty breathing even though you can't diagnose that as a heart attack.

I'd urge someone to visit a psychiatrist if they hear voices.

If someone is auditorily hearing voices, yes, I would have them evaluated by a psychiatrist to make sure they are okay.

BTW, the overwhelming majority of people who "hear God speaking to them," are not talking about hearing auditory voices. They are referring to dialogues that take place inside their own minds. This is neither unusual, nor worrisome.

 

[stvdv]

The quote is better in context:

True

Szasz wrote: "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia

False

If the dead talk to you, you are a spiritualist; If you talk to the dead, you are a schizophrenic

Inconsistent

 

[stvdv]

They haven't figured out yet that your inner voice is coming directly from your own brain and its not supernatural. It is you imagining what you think God would tell you at a given time, not God actually speaking to you inside your brain.

False

I'm curious how people are able to tell the difference between an actual god speaking to them, or their own internal voice imaging what god would say?

Practice

 

[stvdv]

Speaking only for myself, the messages I've had from the Divine came not in words but instead through my "heart" in silently knowing something I should do.

"God" uses different ways for different people to "speak" to them

 

[stvdv]

Ignorance as expected from this man

"He" scores high on a certain disorder himself

Quite an entertainer though

 

[stvdv]

Reality? Has there ever been information that has been proven to be received from "higher sources"? What information? What higher sources?

Yes

 

[stvdv]

But aren't you also alarmed when someone is hearing voices?

No

If such a thing would alarm me, I would be alarmed

 

[Secret Chief]

Inconstent