"if God talks to you, you have schizophrenia"

[idea]

I heard a voice once. I was at a cross-roads in life, considering which direction to go, think about the harder path.... I was but-naked in shower just thinking things through, and in response to my thoughts, a voice said "you'll make it." It sounded like someone was in the bathroom, in the shower, in my head - scared the crap out of me, I grabbed a towel to cover up and whipped the shower open, heart racing, no one was there.

It was not a loving voice, or formal language, no thee's or thou's, kind of an eye-rolling stop-making-mountains-out-of-mole-hills...

"you'll make it"

and I did make it through.

 

[Aupmanyav]

These are not con men we are talking about, but ordinary Joes.

A small correction, "ordinary superstitious Joes".

Then why do people accept that people in Biblical times including Jesus and the Apostles did speak with God or slightly later Mahomed, and that were not simply psychotic.
Why would we accept messages they received as the true word of God. But not believe the religious people in our own time.

Mohammad certainly was not psycholtic, though not sure about Jesus. How can we control what people believe? It is a free world. People will believe what they want to, in people from Biblical times or of today. But people like me do not believe in things that have no evidence. I have no reason to believe in what is proffered as word of God, since I do not even believe in existence of God.

Try for example to describe in words to someone else any epiphany that you yourself have had in life; ..

The only epiphany that I had in life was realization that in worshiping Gods and Goddesses, I was taking my religious belief as truth without putting it to scrutiny. I arrived at it after much deliberation. That is when I became an atheist. It was a fine moment. I have never looked back since that time.

Proof is not possible with today's scientific tools. What would even be called 'God'.

No proof, no acceptance. As simple as that, George.

 

[sun rise]

The DSM 5 definition of delusion is: “fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence”.

The vast majority of humanity have a strong confirmation bias and won't change in the light of conflicting evidence. By that criteria alone, most of humanity is delusional.

Yes, but if someone says they believe in God, and hears voices as to such, are we to believe them?

Why should we. Even if someone truly hears a divine voice, how do we know they are repeating correctly what they heard and that the voice is really divine?

And when they commit a crime - God told me to do it - do we take this into consideration?

Personally I don't like the criminal system as it is. I'd vote guilty or innocent first on whether or not they did the act as charged. In a penalty phase, considerations of sanity can be brought up.

 

[Heyo]

Then why do people accept that people in Biblical times including Jesus and the Apostles did speak with God or slightly later Mahomed, and that were not simply psychotic.

Do we? My guess is that most people who don't accept modern prophets are critical of the old prophets also and those who accept the old prophets are likely to fall for modern prophets.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Do we? My guess is that most people who don't accept modern prophets are critical of the old prophets also and those who accept the old prophets are likely to fall for modern prophets.

The only church which currently has a prophet are the Latter day Saints. It is reasonable for them to believe the leader of their church.
It is also reasonable to believe that if there were prophets in the past,, that there would still be so today.

However I find it difficult to believe that there were ever genuine prophets who could forcast events.

 

[Heyo]

The only church which currently has a prophet are the Latter day Saints.

I'm not talking about "official" prophets but about people who prophetise the second coming (told to them by god) or who start a political campaign on such a hallucination. God so frequently gets it wrong that I think it's fair to say that those who listen to voices in their head have a serious problem (either with their mental health or with their judgement).

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I'm not talking about "official" prophets but about people who prophetise the second coming (told to them by god) or who start a political campaign on such a hallucination. God so frequently gets it wrong that I think it's fair to say that those who listen to voices in their head have a serious problem (either with their mental health or with their judgement).

Have you any evidence that "official" prophets are any more accurate. Or are any less delusional.

 

[Heyo]

Have you any evidence that "official" prophets are any more accurate. Or are any less delusional.

I don't know enough about the Mormons but isn't their "prophet" more a title than a functional description?

 

[Link]

Psychiatrists won't prescribe medications if they know you can function well without them. Some people hear voices, see things, and function well, they are not given medications nor diagnosed with the illness. The brain when it shoots thoughts with no control and chaotically too fast, this is what is known as schizophrenia. It shoots so fast, your brain literally looses grey matter because of it's toxicity. Medications don't stop spiritual sight or experiencing with divine, all they do, is stop your brain from shooting thoughts chaotically too fast.

My suggestion, because I have the illness, is to trust in doctors and take the medications if you are diagnosed with this illness.

If God and his chosen are going to talk to you, they want you to have a functional brain that can reason and can tell what is holy and what is not, so as to not mix and accuse the Masters of the straight path, as evil Jinn. It's better to take medications, because, you will become irrational without them, and then God won't talk to you so as to confuse you when you become irrational.

If God wants to talk to you, I think medications and a sane mind that can tell what is a holy spirit from God and what is a vain rebellious spirit, is better then one that has become chaotic and has no control over what it believes or experiences since your brain is chaotically shooting thoughts with no control from you or reasonable pace to decide things for yourself.

 

[idea]

I don't know enough about the Mormons but isn't their "prophet" more a title than a functional description?

I don't know enough about the Mormons but isn't their "prophet" more a title than a functional description?

No, they believe it is the real deal.
Prophets

Members are to follow the racist, sexist, homophobic cult leaders without question.

 

[idea]

The only church which currently has a prophet are the Latter day Saints. It is reasonable for them to believe the leader of their church.
It is also reasonable to believe that if there were prophets in the past,, that there would still be so today.

However I find it difficult to believe that there were ever genuine prophets who could forcast events.

There are a few current groups who have prophets, Mormons are not unique.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans speak in their heads ask questions and answer questions their selves.

Think ideas about anything.

Humans theoried science conversion status given to properties they wanted changed. Not a natural support.

Idea information to convert the property but not why presence of form existed. Science never owned that answer.

Irradiated brains the thinker.

Humans quote the life mind body changes of human nature our science brother caused.

What he never owned in science to be informed was mass.

Which the heavens is.

AI machine transmitted status. Natural atmosphere already owned visionary memories transmitted status naturally.

Why we say no man is God

Life gets intricately recorded. Satanic science today is intricate studying all reasons claiming they will find God.

Science category to infer by science status of my perusal. Fake.

We hear our holy father mother speak to us as they are deceased. Voice image is recorded.

Reason life spirit self owned by millions was released out of the eternal first. Various bodies. All pre owned.

Changed within heavens mass ground zero on spatial plane. In the mind it is contradictory to spatial emptiness. The whole universe is hence nothing to do with us

Our minds say from beginning to end inside heavens the eternal owns our presence. The being of unconditional love.

As consciousness is aware perceives.

Humans Lives and died. Memory is left.

Original eternal spirit can speak to us from eternal using that status. The records of both voice and image.

When I was brain irradiated preceding the event I began to hear Intricate science information in my psyche.

Prickling burning allowed me to realise what crown of thorns was as a description. A human attacked experience caused by human science.

The only not natural status.

They think they own it as science. Atmosphere always owned visionary recording itself.

If the atmosphere can transmit voice and image then it is not any mental condition. Humans are affected by atmospheric change. Body changes also.

Commonsense medical for humans know we should all be healthy.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The vast majority of humanity have a strong confirmation bias and won't change in the light of conflicting evidence. By that criteria alone, most of humanity is delusional.

Confirmation bias is not the same thing as delusion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A small correction, "ordinary superstitious Joes"..

Usually the word superstitious indicates magical thinking. Like "step ona crack break your mothers back." Having convefsations with God is a totally different category.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

by whom?
What is more likely that they really saw a vision of the Virgin Mary, or that they are suffering from some mental disorder?

It is not a mental disorder unless the vision causes dysfuntion in their lives. For example, lets say the Virgin Mary appears to sthem and say to be a good catholic, and as a result they become better people. That is not a mental illness. Now if the virgin mary appears to them and tells them that all their food is poisoned and so they stop eating, THAT is mental illness.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What we are discussing here is when someone becomes dysfunctional. I agree that we can exclude all those who use "god talked to me" as a figure of speech and don't really believe it themselves

28% of the population claims that God talks to them. It's not a figure of speech. They believe it. And its not mental illness unless it makes them dysfunctional.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, but if someone says they believe in God, and hears voices as to such, are we to believe them? And when they commit a crime - God told me to do it - do we take this into consideration? Where does it lead? I know the differences between the behaviours that disrupt one's life or are more like compulsions as opposed to those that generally aren't, but how should others treat such beliefs? Not bothered until or unless they harm others?

If God supposedly tells them to commit a crime, THEN that is dysfunction and a mental illness.

But for the vast majority of that 28% who say God talks to them, they are perfectly functional.

 

[Mock Turtle]

If God supposedly tells them to commit a crime, THEN that is dysfunction and a mental illness.

But for the vast majority of that 28% who say God talks to them, they are perfectly functional.

That's being a bit judgmental on God though - since any God might have perfectly good reasons to do whatever, and by human means, since we supposedly don't know the mind of God. So why wouldn't any who committed acts that we see as wrong not just defend themselves with - God told me to do it but didn't explain why? Plenty of suicide bombers seem to have adequate explanations - to them - and might just say - what's a few deaths mean in the grand scheme of things if something is achieved - and much like any war.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Why should we. Even if someone truly hears a divine voice, how do we know they are repeating correctly what they heard and that the voice is really divine?

I can't answer that but perhaps neuroscience might in the future if we can prove that such voices do only emanate from within our own thought processes, and hence ultimately we are responsible for what we might do based on such. I've satisfied myself as to this but that is hardly enough.

Personally I don't like the criminal system as it is. I'd vote guilty or innocent first on whether or not they did the act as charged. In a penalty phase, considerations of sanity can be brought up.

I don't know - not so well up on law and what applies where.

 

[Heyo]

Usually the word superstitious indicates magical thinking. Like "step ona crack break your mothers back." Having convefsations with God is a totally different category.

I think that having "conversations" with "god" is magical thinking. When you believe that an entity (that is not a manifestation of your unconscious) is communicating with you without knowing the method of communication or how that entity even exists, the only explanation you have for that entity or that path of communication is "magic".