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If Jesus Died...
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
So God cannot convince people of something without violence? He drove the nails and I don't believe it.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
There is no benefit if someone forgives/doesn't forgive me and does/doesn't punish me if I remain the same.
And why would God after forgiving us need our confirmation of His forgiveness to make it real?
What punishment?
There is a threat of punishment.
My wife threaten to punish the kids if they didn't behave, but they soon learned there was no follow up.
A threat without a tangible consequence doesn't usually work.
I suspect it would be more about humans setting up exclusive access to God. Basically acknowledging the need to follow the rules laid out by Christian doctrine to be saved.
Five Solas
Active Member
Interesting to know. However, literary criticism is an important and necessary discipline but scholars are not the judges of biblical truth or accuracy. Even in scholarship, the big red line remains faith.
Five Solas
Active Member
Correct. My faith does not create truth/history. That is, however, not what I claim. I believe it is objectively true.
I am a Christian, you know. We believe these things because the proof is overwhelming.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
and Jesus is the overwhelming proof.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
hardly overwhelming to none though, me-understands, please. Right?
Is one finished with reasonable arguments, please? If not, I am here to serve and respond, please. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is a wrong concept of John, I gather.
I have checked 1 John 2:2 is neither written by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus nor shown to Jesus for approval, as all the verses in the KJV Red Letter Bible* of Protestantism people and of Douay-Rheims** Red Letter Bible ( of the Catholicism people) have been colored in Red. The above quote of 1 John 2:2 is not colored in red in both of them , one may verify it if I am wrong, please. Right?
No such concept has been given by Jesus himself, I understand, please. Right?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please. Right?
Regards
__________________
*
New Testament
(Red Letter Edition)
King James Version
The New Testament
of our Lord and Saviour
Jesus Christ
Translated out of the original Greek, and with the former translations diligently compared and revised,
with all the words recorded therein as having been spoken by our Lord printed in Red.
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
**THE HOLY BIBLE:
THE DOUAY-RHEIMS TRANSLATION
The first English Version
used by the Roman Catholic Church
since A.D. 1582.(* With the words of Jesus in red.)
The First Epistle of St. John
Five Solas
Active Member
Yes, and the Gospels are reliable documents informing us about Jesus's life, deeds and words whilst on earth. It documents his death and resurrection with great accuracy. How can we not believe?
Five Solas
Active Member
What is your point?It is a wrong concept of John, I gather.
I have checked 1 John 2:2 is neither written by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus nor shown to Jesus for approval, as all the verses in the KJV Red Letter Bible* of Protestantism people and of Douay-Rheims** Red Letter Bible ( of the Catholicism people) have been colored in Red. The above quote of 1 John 2:2 is not colored in red in both of them , one may verify it if I am wrong, please. Right?
No such concept has been given by Jesus himself, I understand, please. Right?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please. Right?
Regards
__________________
*
New Testament
(Red Letter Edition)
King James Version
The New Testament
of our Lord and Saviour
Jesus Christ
Translated out of the original Greek, and with the former translations diligently compared and revised,
with all the words recorded therein as having been spoken by our Lord printed in Red.
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
**THE HOLY BIBLE:
THE DOUAY-RHEIMS TRANSLATION
The first English Version
used by the Roman Catholic Church
since A.D. 1582.(* With the words of Jesus in red.)
The First Epistle of St. John
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, the Gospels are how we come to know about the life, words and deeds of Jesus, but I also believe in Jesus because of what my religion teaches about Him, which corroborates what the Gospels say about His power, born of Almighty God, and the station of Jesus as Savior and Healer of all of humanity.
“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.
Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86
syo
Well-Known Member
What do you mean?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The point is well elaborated in the post, perhaps one did not read it intently:
"1 John 2:2 is neither written by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus nor shown to Jesus for approval, as all the verses in the KJV Red Letter Bible* of Protestantism people and of Douay-Rheims** Red Letter Bible ( of the Catholicism people) have been colored in Red. The above quote of 1 John 2:2 is not colored in red in both of them"
Right?
Regards
Five Solas
Active Member
So?
Five Solas
Active Member
Meaning what?
It was penned years after His assertion.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
"1 John 2:2 is neither written by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus nor shown to Jesus for approval
Regards
"1 John 2:2 is neither written by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus nor shown to Jesus for approval
I agree to ones reason that the Books/letters penned down after Jesus disappearance, must not be included in the Gospels. Is that one is saying please, if I have understood one correctly, please. Right?
Regards
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
You are this "one". Right?
Five Solas
Active Member
No, that is NOT what I implied.
You just love to lay words in other people's mouths, don't you? That is not honest.
You also like to force your views onto others.
Given fact:
None of the NT authors wrote with an awareness of a future 27-book canon nor did they understand their own role in creating it. They could not have foreseen the ’final product’.
But they wrote with authority. The NT authors show evidence that they understood their writings to contain authoritative apostolic tradition. The apostles were commissioned by Christ to speak for him and were empowered by the Holy Spirit. So, the NT writings have the authority of Christ himself. To the earliest Christians, the Gospels were “the word of God” and it had been regarded as that by the church since then.
Just one example: In Paul’s earliest letter, he is explicit about his own authority as an apostle of Jesus Christ when he reminds the Thessalonians, “You received the word of God, which you heard from us, and accepted it not as the words of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (2:13). 1 Thess 2:13
Paul directly addresses the precise nature of his writings and declares that they are a “command of the Lord”
Five Solas
Active Member
He did not disappear. He is alive. He is in heaven and is sitting on the right-hand side of God.