McBell
Admiral Obvious
Either you are confused or you did not present that they way you intended.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If Jesus was a sacrifice...
- Thread starter Faybull
- Start date
yokomodoful
Member
Looking to bible as a reference, we are told the penalty of sin is death.
The words of Jesus at the last supper clearly give the answer as to whom his sacrifice is for.
"The is my body given FOR YOU..."
"This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out FOR YOU."...
Taureaux bleus
Drifter
True... Christ Jesus was indeed resurrected, but don't you need to die , especially being a living being in order to be resurrected?
If not , please explain to me where the english language is so complicated that I can understand this principle.
Taureaux bleus
Drifter
I do not agree with your statement. Watch the movie Dannie Brasco which brought the MAFIA to its knees in the USA...
Brasco is definitely guilty of murder and suffering which could have been prevented... the distress however was allowed for a period of time in view of a good cause and he is seen as a hero.
Please let me have your views!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Donnie had a good cause. That doesn't change it from murder, but I can see the logic in his actions. Donnie also wasn't all-powerful, all-knowing and all-present. He was human.
It defeats the purpose if you're just going to rise up again not a week later. Why kill him at all?
yokomodoful
Member
If this was only a metphor, why did many of His followers leave Him because of it?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's why it wasn't a sacrifice.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
It isn't the English language that is so complicated it is the lack of understanding of what the ransom was for. Because there is a hope for some going to heaven via the Covenant for a Kingdom that Jesus made with his "little flock," and the vast majority, if not all, of the Christians of the 1st Century were of this sub-set of Christ's "flock," many of the churches today miss that what man lost was perfect human life.
Christ gave up his right to perfect human life only. He never gave up his previous right to live as a spirit creature. This perfect human life is the Bible's hope for Christ's "other sheep." (Mt 5:5)
Human life is all Adam had to lose. God told him he was from dust and to dust he would return. Since God did not tell him he had some immortal part of himself that lives on, there isn't one. That was an invention of Satan when he told Eve, "You will not die."
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Whose sacrifice are you supposing it wasn't?
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I was thinking while I was away (since post #171) that God could have crated a perfect man with no prior life in heaven, but arranging for the sacrifice of that man would have been merciless to the one sacrificed. But by transferring a spirit son to human life, he could redeem the sacrificial Lamb as well. Because the person sacrificed would still have the right to life, just not the right to human life.
Instead of using just any angelic son, he used his best, his first and only direct creation. Showing that there is nothing he will hold back from us if it can be satisfied within his senses of love, justice and wisdom.
Instead of using just any angelic son, he used his best, his first and only direct creation. Showing that there is nothing he will hold back from us if it can be satisfied within his senses of love, justice and wisdom.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You don't know? I guess things are more worse off than I expected.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Jesus became sin. Jesus became sin and died on the cross. When Jesus died all sins died. All sins are gone for those who believe. We have to have faith in Jesus' blood taking away all our sins.
When we come to Jesus, and all our sins are taken away...we are to live our new life---living up to the fact that we are without sin. In other words, we are to live our life not sinning anymore.
Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Apocalypse-Now
En Sabah Nur
For sure, we know that Jesus was sacrificed for the greater good of Israel, the Roman empire, and for mankind as a whole. But the extent to which he was willing to be sacrificed is most likely to be less than a hundred percent. As we must remind ourselves that in the Garden of Gethsemane he prayed and asked God if there might be a way to circumvent the cross:-
Matthew 26:39 - And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Luke 22:42 - saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
So at least we know that even Jesus wavered, and vacillated in regards to his mission as the anointed one.
With human frailty, Jesus wasn't entirely committed to his role as Messiah to the Jewish people, nor Mankind as a whole; and he showed signs of weakness, which suggested he didn't want to be sacrificed.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Considering how much dignity he displayed once arrested this seems unlikely. More likely he was concerned about what Jehovah's enemies would say when Jesus, his only-begotten son, died as a criminal. He may have also imagined and worried about what kind of reproach it would bring on his Father if he failed this most difficult of his tests.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
What a clever question.
To his own Self I guess, as that is all there is. The inner part is pure, but if he has been without then he is not pure on the outside. This had to die again to release the pure part. This enables him to return to the real Temple, the Source of everything.