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If Jesus was God, explain this verse...
- Thread starter Aamer
- Start date
Shermana
Heretic
I have plenty of message. You have no counter-argument, you're just spinning your wheels, and it ain't quite in mud but something that looks like it with similar texture.
It's okay, I imagine it must be very difficult to have your little bubble of complacency popped with facts.
Shermana
Heretic
Because he disobeyed God by trusting his wife over Him.
God allowed it to happen because He gave man free will. But it wasn't necessarily his intention.
Was it God's fought or Adam?
Shermana
Heretic
It was Adam's "fought", not God's.
God gave him a test. Adam failed. And so humanity went in the direction it did.
Wrong...
Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join Gods children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
(NLV) 20 Everything that has been made in the world is weak. It is not that the world wanted it to be that way. God allowed it to be that way. Yet there is hope. 21 Everything that has been made in the world will be set free from the power that can destroy. These will become free just as the children of God become free.
(NASB) 20For the creation (A)was subjected to (B)futility, not willingly, but (C)because of Him who subjected it, [a]in hope 21that (D)the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
MSG) 8-21 That's why I don't think there's any comparison between the present hard times and the coming good times. The created world itself can hardly wait for what's coming next. Everything in creation is being more or less held back. God reins it in until both creation and all the creatures are ready and can be released at the same moment into the glorious times ahead. Meanwhile, the joyful anticipation deepens.
(NLV) 20 Everything that has been made in the world is weak. It is not that the world wanted it to be that way. God allowed it to be that way. Yet there is hope. 21 Everything that has been made in the world will be set free from the power that can destroy. These will become free just as the children of God become free.
(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have
(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have
I like this version.
If Adam had a freewill chapter and verse please.
Shermana
Heretic
I'm sure you'll completely dismiss the fact that most commentators agree with what I'm saying here, but it's talking about how God made it that way because of Adam's sin.
Romans 8:20 Commentaries: For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
"Its own choice" is not talking about Adam. It's talking about the fate of the Created world because of Adam's choice.
Romans 8:20 Commentaries: For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
"Its own choice" is not talking about Adam. It's talking about the fate of the Created world because of Adam's choice.
Shermana
Heretic
If Adam didn't have Free Will, God wouldn't have bothered telling him not to eat the Fruit, it's really that simple.
They wouldn't have sent Cherubim to guard the Tree of Life either to prevent him from eating of it.
Sigh, a hard-determinist too?
Let me guess, you're a Calvinist ain't ya.
They wouldn't have sent Cherubim to guard the Tree of Life either to prevent him from eating of it.
Sigh, a hard-determinist too?
Let me guess, you're a Calvinist ain't ya.
Well plese showing me where Adam had a choice in the Bible. Not some fale religious manmade claim . You have the Holy Spirit as you claim so where is this verse to back up your false belief? No I do not believe in your bias commentaries they are based on your false logic.
Carnal man does not have a freewill or choice in his salvation Chapter and verse please???
I give you chapter and verse and all you give me is your bias opinion???
Then you attack God's Word with your goofie translations and then you make an assumption and expect me to believe you?
I have. Adam had no choice according (Romans 8;20)
It was Gods choose Adam to sin because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eves sin; then He is not all knowing. It was God lowered Adam from a spirit to a living soul and formed him from dust man. It was God who made Adam and Eve innocent; they did not do it them selves. It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden. It was God who put the devil, a man slayer, a murderer, a liar in the garden; God totally knew what he was doing with Adam and Eve.
.
It was God not little Adam and Eve who caused the fall, it was God not little Adam who planned as well as set up Adam and Eve to sin; it is God not Little Adam and Eve who declares: You (God) turn man to destruction, Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse, the creation (A)was subjected to (B)futility, not willingly, But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it.
(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have
Shermana
Heretic
I just showed you other interpretations, commentators who agree with me, you deny and ignore mine and call me attacking God's word with "Goofy" translations, and double down on yours as if yours is automatically correct just because, you're not here to debate, you're here to preach.
So get off the debate forums. The DIRS are for preaching.
And seriously, for the last time, please stop using the word "bias", it's just.....really. Seriously. Stop. Do I need to explain why? Again?
So get off the debate forums. The DIRS are for preaching.
And seriously, for the last time, please stop using the word "bias", it's just.....really. Seriously. Stop. Do I need to explain why? Again?
Shermana
Heretic
Unless you're going to get into the Greek and the historic commentators and the scholars in regards to the meaning and the context, you have no right to call a translation "goofy". I'm not here to play KJV-only with you. And even with that said, the KJV-only isn't the issue, I'm not here to play "My interpretation against all the others" either.
Either back up your claim with someone else who agrees with you or kindly pack up and go.
Shermana
Heretic
I made a simple point, you ducked and dodged.
Why would God even tell him not to eat the Fruit if he had no free will, and why would he send Cherubim to guard the Tree of Life.
There it is again.
Now either address that point or continue to stamp and have a hissy fit and cry demanding to win just because.
Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter
Notice how God hides His deep Word. If you have the Holy Spirit as you claim you would start searching for these matters instead of defending bad doctrine.
Shermana
Heretic
Let me know when you plan on actually attempting to debate instead of just calling anything you agree with "bad doctrine".
How many times are you going to admit I was right before you start acknowledging what I say that you agreed was right? Do you simply have a bad memory or a REALLY resistant ego? The cognitive dissonance must be killing ya!
Again, if you're here to preach, there's the DIRs. I highly recommend those for you since you're obviously not here for honest debate but to feed your badly damaged ego.
Opinion not accepted. Chapter and verse please. because GOD wanted Adam to fall. Romans 8:20. Should I post it again??? How can Adam have a freewill if He had "no choice"????
(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have
freewill is your false belief not mine.
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I am debating. I still waiting for something other than your opinion?
Notice I have scriptures. you want more?
I have more.
I doubt it because either you refute them or dismiss them, and seldom quote them.