If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Shiranui117]

Off hand I am not sure of its location--but it is a fact.

Not convincing without evidence. Your asserting that it's a fact doesn't make it so.

 

[metis]

Also he doesn't believe in the Bible or having a church or priest/pastor or prayer or eucharist...

Good point.

 

[RabbiO]

They don't? Then you don't believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, forgiveness, heaven, hell, etc. because they all are found in RCC teachings.

If kjw47 is a Jehovah's Witness member then, in fact, he does reject the Trinity and hell, except as a synonym for the grave.

 

[metis]

If kjw47 is a Jehovah's Witness member then, in fact, he does reject the Trinity and hell, except as a synonym for the grave.

I don't know if he's a JW as I really don't much know him (or I can't remember), but he does tend to post like one.

BTW, I have a JW family that lives across the street from me that I've known for roughly 40 years, and another JW family used to live next to me but moved out about 10 years ago. Nice people, and there were times in the past whereas we did discuss theology, and we always got along very well.

 

[Muffled]

Really? They've been at it for darn near 2000 years, so exactly how long have you been at it?

I believe there is a mind set that reaches a false understanding based on faulty reasoning and a group bias that the group is always right.

 

[Muffled]

Good point....
But here is something related that supposedly took place during that temptation.

In the Gospel attributed to Matthew, the gospel writer makes an extraordinary claim concerning world geography. He wrote that the devil took Jesus to the top of a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world.
Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory Matthew 4:8
The disturbing thing is that this mountain does not exist. There is no mountain from which one can see all the kingdoms of the world.
I’m sure the writer of the gospel realized that if he observed from a high place he could see a lot further than if he observed from a low place. But he didn’t know that there was no mountain high enough to see all the kingdoms of the world and certainly he did not know that the world is round.
Matthew wasn’t present when supposedly the devil took Jesus up on that imaginary mountain, so we know that Jesus’ imaginary trip to the top of an imaginary mountain is just a fiction made up by Matthew or a later editor.
Dishonest in one, dishonest in all. It only takes one lie to make a liar. Certainly we cannot trust the integrity of the gospel attributed to Matthew.

BigRed

I believe the text does not say that Jesus could see all the kingdoms from that mountain. This is a speculation on your part.

I don't believe it is possible for you to know such a thing.

I believe in this case the appraisal is dishonest and the text is honest.

I believe no evidence has been presented to indicate that Matthew was making things up and that his integrity remains as one who is a witness to the ministry of Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

I don't know if he's a JW as I really don't much know him (or I can't remember), but he does tend to post like one.

BTW, I have a JW family that lives across the street from me that I've known for roughly 40 years, and another JW family used to live next to me but moved out about 10 years ago. Nice people, and there were times in the past whereas we did discuss theology, and we always got along very well.

I have a JW brother-in-law living with me and we talk theology at times but he hasn't learned not to get angry when I come up with a cogent argument that doesn't agree with his beliefs. However I believe this may not be unique since I had a rather heated argument with an evanglical brother and he may never forgive me, who knows. I had another evangelical Christian shun me because he felt "You are no kind of Christian" because I didn't believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity.

I believe in order to get along one must love God's children more than being right about theology.

 

[Shiranui117]

I have a JW brother-in-law living with me and we talk theology at times but he hasn't learned not to get angry when I come up with a cogent argument that doesn't agree with his beliefs. However I believe this may not be unique since I had a rather heated argument with an evanglical brother and he may never forgive me, who knows. I had another evangelical Christian shun me because he felt "You are no kind of Christian" because I didn't believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity.

I believe in order to get along one must love God's children more than being right about theology.

I know I'm a terrible example of it, but my sig says it all, I think.

 

[kjw47]

I don't know if he's a JW as I really don't much know him (or I can't remember), but he does tend to post like one.

BTW, I have a JW family that lives across the street from me that I've known for roughly 40 years, and another JW family used to live next to me but moved out about 10 years ago. Nice people, and there were times in the past whereas we did discuss theology, and we always got along very well.

I searched for years for Jesus' teachers-- I have never found a single one in a trinity religion--The JW,s are the only teachers I have found in my 53 year search.

 

[kjw47]

I have a JW brother-in-law living with me and we talk theology at times but he hasn't learned not to get angry when I come up with a cogent argument that doesn't agree with his beliefs. However I believe this may not be unique since I had a rather heated argument with an evanglical brother and he may never forgive me, who knows. I had another evangelical Christian shun me because he felt "You are no kind of Christian" because I didn't believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity.

I believe in order to get along one must love God's children more than being right about theology.

Being right is a requirement

The Father is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and TRUTH-- truth is required.

 

[BigRed]

I believe the text does not say that Jesus could see all the kingdoms from that mountain. This is a speculation on your part.

I don't believe it is possible for you to know such a thing.

I believe in this case the appraisal is dishonest and the text is honest.

I believe no evidence has been presented to indicate that Matthew was making things up and that his integrity remains as one who is a witness to the ministry of Jesus.

Here is the verse...
Matthew 4:8 KJV
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
BigRed

 

[metis]

I believe there is a mind set that reaches a false understanding based on faulty reasoning and a group bias that the group is always right.

But what's "faulty reasoning" is highly subjective in this area, and "group bias" abounds from both groups and individuals. We're dealing with an area whereas it's almost impossible to prove much of anything, which is one reason why there are roughly 300 Protestant denominations and thousands of independents with most of them claiming they have the right answers.

Therefore, if you take the time to study Catholic theology, it's quite impressive, however if you disagree with some of the foundational theologies, you'll obviously have a fair number of disagreements.

 

[Muffled]

I searched for years for Jesus' teachers-- I have never found a single one in a trinity religion--The JW,s are the only teachers I have found in my 53 year search.

I studied with them for a while. After each session the Holy Spirit would come and indicate that some things said were not right and I would have to search the scriptures for the truth. It was an interesting way to learn the Bible but I believe too many people just accept the false teaching and don't have the Holy Spirit to protect them. Once ecsonced in the relgion the people are never able to come to the truth because the teaching can never be questioned.

 

[Muffled]

Being right is a requirement

The Father is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and TRUTH-- truth is required.

I believe love is required or were you absent the day that was taught?

 

[Muffled]

But what's "faulty reasoning" is highly subjective in this area, and "group bias" abounds from both groups and individuals. We're dealing with an area whereas it's almost impossible to prove much of anything, which is one reason why there are roughly 300 Protestant denominations and thousands of independents with most of them claiming they have the right answers.

Therefore, if you take the time to study Catholic theology, it's quite impressive, however if you disagree with some of the foundational theologies, you'll obviously have a fair number of disagreements.

Logic is never subjective. The logic that a person presents either follows the rules of logic or it doesn't. If you say a tree is an apple, the logic is faulty. If you say some trees bear apples, so there are apple trees the logic is proper and follows the rules.

I believe you may be referring to the body of work as in the Talmud is an impressive body of work. I doubt the concepts contained within are anywhere nears as impressive.

I believe if a theology is built on a foundation of sand it won't hold up when the winds blow hard. So what if the whole world speaks falsely, will not my voice be one heard in a wilderness calling out for repentance?

 

[kjw47]

I believe love is required or were you absent the day that was taught?

I didn't say love wasnt required, I know for sure it is, but so is truth. Daniel 12:4--true knowledge would become abundant here in these last days.

 

[metis]

Logic is never subjective. The logic that a person presents either follows the rules of logic or it doesn't. If you say a tree is an apple, the logic is faulty. If you say some trees bear apples, so there are apple trees the logic is proper and follows the rules.

Actually it is subjective in regards to its application since it is a process and not an answer.

I believe you may be referring to the body of work as in the Talmud is an impressive body of work. I doubt the concepts contained within are anywhere nears as impressive.

Why do you say that? There are a great many Jews and even some non-Jews that think it is. As for me, I've got mixed feelings about it, but I also have a lot of mixed feelings about a lot of things, including the Bible itself.

I believe if a theology is built on a foundation of sand it won't hold up when the winds blow hard. So what if the whole world speaks falsely, will not my voice be one heard in a wilderness calling out for repentance?

The one thing about theology is that it's darn near impossible to prove anything false. For example, please provide evidence that Arjuna didn't speak with Vishnu as recorded in the Bagavad Gita? Or even provide evidence that Vishnu doesn't exist as a manifestation of God? Or provide evidence that your church is even slightly on the right track? Provide evidence that the Bible is divinely inspired? Provide evidence that the Qur'an is less reliable than the Bible?

This is not to say that Christianity is not logical, but simply that your logical conclusions will largely depend on what you accept to be true with the foundational base that you accept, which in reality cannot be objectively established as being correct. This is why there are so many religions and so many denominations/branches within these religions.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

It is a good question. We might ask ourselves on what level man in man and what level God is God. There are many different levels of Self. We for instance can have the spirit of God with us, in us. Does that make us God? We are also part of him. All things come from him in a Fractal way through developing Consciousness. That would mean that we are all Aspects of God. The part that we think of as the Saviour is the one that was inwardly the Highest Aspect of that Self that we consider to be God. Thus in one sense we are all God and in another sense Yahshuah is also God. But the level we see, bearing in mind that everything is really an allusion, is not God but man. The question might be better stated, Where is the God part of the Saviour. I think this is on a different level of Existence just as we can have thoughts on different levels, some of which seem to be important at the time, and those which are not, and are therefore, hidden. In short, he was a man. But the bigger picture is that everything is Man, everything is God. It is the Logos in the Flesh

 

[Robert.Evans]

The one thing about theology is that it's darn near impossible to prove anything false. For example, please provide evidence that Arjuna didn't speak with Vishnu as recorded in the Bagavad Gita? Or even provide evidence that Vishnu doesn't exist as a manifestation of God? Or provide evidence that your church is even slightly on the right track? Provide evidence that the Bible is divinely inspired? Provide evidence that the Qur'an is less reliable than the Bible?

You make a good point. I would say that there is no problem with seeing them all as correct as everything is Consciousness and therefore within one Realm of another, these things exist

 

[metis]

You make a good point. I would say that there is no problem with seeing them all as correct as everything is Consciousness and therefore within one Realm of another, these things exist

Thanks.

There's an old saying that one cannot find good answers unless they ask good questions, and I feel that sometimes we're not asking the good questions. For whatever reason, God (or Gods) have not chosen to reveal themselves openly for all to see, which pretty much leads me to feel that maybe we're looking for God(s) in the wrong place, namely outside of ourselves and outside of Nature. It may well be that "We are That" and maybe "All is That".

BTW, welcome here to RF.