If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[kjw47]

That verse is saying He was made alive, in other words, resurrected by the holy Spirit. However, of course He is in glorified form now, as described in Revelation 1. Yet, Jesus remains the Son of man. Yes it all belongs to the Father. Jesus was the manifestation of the Father in human form.

And, there is a difference between Jesus' reign on the right hand in heaven which is now, and His thousand years reign directly on earth which hasn't happened yet. The thousand year reign is, I guess part of His reign on the right hand, but it hasn't begun yet. The purpose of His reign on the right hand is to subdue all of mankind's enemies. The thousand year reign is obviously part of that mission. He must first break the kingdoms of this world as a potter's vessel and then set up His kingdom on earth. The ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's statue will be destroyed and the Lord's kingdom will then fill the earth. Then, He will rule over land and sea. All the creatures there in. Fulfilling God's original directive to Adam. To rule over the earth and the animals. "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." So I believe, at that time man's enemies such as the thorns(the curse put on the ground Gen 3:17) will be subdued also. And the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

So there is a constant in all this, which is God coming in the form of man, taking our enemies as His enemies and defeating those enemies for our sakes. So, He could reconcile man unto Himself. Thus, we see that God promised so many great powers to a man(the Messiah) in the prophecies. It was necessary that man receive these powers to defeat these enemies that had power over man. He knew it would be Himself that received those powers, for our sakes. So the scripture says "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." And in Revelation it says "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."

And it says

For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the Lord behold the earth; To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death; To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; (Psalm 102:19-21)
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. (Isaiah 59:16)

Jesus received his crown-1914---- the first ride of the white horse( rev 6) this is the battle between Michael and satan and his angels in heaven--cast to the earth. Satan came like a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short. He filled mens hearts with hatred all over the earth and ww1 began. His main goal was to stop the preaching of the good news of Gods kingdom, he knew JW,s would not stand against each other on both sides--there is no love in doing that. They were thrown into prision until 1918 or 1919). The work stopped, but they did not fold to that pressure and have been growing ever since.--the 2nd ride is at Harmageddon.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is Michael--- the prophecys concerning the Messiah--he stands as Gods appointed king to lead Gods armies. Michael lead those armies in the war of heaven--the first ride of the white horse-rev 6)( 4 horsemen rode starting in 1914) Where upon completion--he receives his crown( Jesus gets the crown--he alone is Gods appointed king--he alone has the right to defend Gods kingdom against satan.
In the ot not a single mention of the name Jesus--yet has always been 2nd in command--so obviously is mentioned--as Michael.

Gabriel is never called archangel except in unacceptable books. Jesus comes with his voice at 1 thess 4:16

False teachers teach--Jesus was fully God--yet Gods word teaches--Jesus was made a little lower than the angels as a mortal--God is not lower than the angels and never ever would be.

I believe it is shameful to keep repeating this when all the evidence is to the contrary.

I believe there are no prophecies that Michael will be the Messiah or that he will lead the armies of God as told in Revelations.

Michael is not mentioned in those verses either.

Michael is never pictured as receiving a crown.

i believe this is derivative dribble. It is almost as bad as listening to psychobabble or one of those mystical gurus who put a lot of unrelated facts together and come out with a wrong conclusion and considering that there isn't logical resoning they could come up with any conclusion they wished.

I have already explained to you why I believe your conclusion is false but you seem to think parroting false information serves as an argument and the truth is that it does not.

I believe so and the JW's have more than their share of them and don't thnk they have to justify their false teaching. After all if the false teacher is teaching it, it must be true.

I believe God is not lower than the angels but the body of Jesus is and that is not a part of Jesus that can be ignored. The spiritual entity in Jesus is fully God.

 

[Muffled]

Hi Benoni, just as Yeshua, the Father, and the Saints are One:

Jn 17:20 - 17:21

(20) “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; (21) that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

So are all of those who Believe, also Elohim in the flesh? KB

I believe that believers are not one with the Father all the time and in some people never and that is why Jesus is praying for it since it is rarely achieved.

I beleive this can never be true since a beleiver will most often have his own spirit present even if it isn't in control but Jesus did not have another spirit accompanying the Spirit of God.

 

[Muffled]

both names mentioned leading Gods armies does, only Jesus has the right to battle satan--it was all set up in genesis that way. It is Jesus' voice--he is Michael---God would never come down here and let creations treat him like a piece of ---- and then murder him--never.

I believe that is illogical because it is like saying that Gen. McArthur is Gen Patton because they both led armies.

I beleive this shows how little you know God. BTW there isn't any scripture that supports your view of God.

 

[kjw47]

I believe it is shameful to keep repeating this when all the evidence is to the contrary.

I believe there are no prophecies that Michael will be the Messiah or that he will lead the armies of God as told in Revelations.

Michael is not mentioned in those verses either.

Michael is never pictured as receiving a crown.

i believe this is derivative dribble. It is almost as bad as listening to psychobabble or one of those mystical gurus who put a lot of unrelated facts together and come out with a wrong conclusion and considering that there isn't logical resoning they could come up with any conclusion they wished.

I have already explained to you why I believe your conclusion is false but you seem to think parroting false information serves as an argument and the truth is that it does not.

I believe so and the JW's have more than their share of them and don't thnk they have to justify their false teaching. After all if the false teacher is teaching it, it must be true.

I believe God is not lower than the angels but the body of Jesus is and that is not a part of Jesus that can be ignored. The spiritual entity in Jesus is fully God.

Many believe what you believe--but Jesus' truths teach the opposite. Like at John 17:1-6--Jesus teaches--the one who sent him( John 5:30) Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. --- but most refuse to believe Jesus--WHY?

 

[badger58]

Niether did He need to be baptised, as the babtist said, I have need to be pabtised by you. His answer, suffer it to be so that all righteousness be fulfilled. He showed us many things by example, not for His edification but for ours. I hope this helps.

 

[kjw47]

I believe that is illogical because it is like saying that Gen. McArthur is Gen Patton because they both led armies.

I beleive this shows how little you know God. BTW there isn't any scripture that supports your view of God.

there is a big difference from mortals and spirit beings--mortal generals have nothing to do with the facts.

Fact--- a spirit being came down to earth and was born a mortal--- Fact--it was not God according to Jesus' truths.

 

[outhouse]

Fact--- a spirit being came down to earth and was born a mortal--- Fact--it was not God according to Jesus' truths.

Im sorry but that in no way was factual on either account.

"son of god" was a term used before Jesus was even born by Augustus.

That and Jesus never penned a word of the bible, and were not sure exactly how much can even be attributed to him since not one eye witness wrote a word.

 

[Benoni]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

The first Adam was tempted and failed. The second Adam (Jesus) overcame all temptations. Why was Jesus tempted if he was God? because God can do all things including reversing the curse of Adam

 

[kjw47]

Im sorry but that in no way was factual on either account.

"son of god" was a term used before Jesus was even born by Augustus.

That and Jesus never penned a word of the bible, and were not sure exactly how much can even be attributed to him since not one eye witness wrote a word.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were eye witnesses.

 

[Benoni]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were eye witnesses.

Don't for get Acts as well as most of the rest of the NT authors

 

[jtartar]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

Aamer,
You have just added to the long list of reasons why Jesus cannot be God.
Think about this also, How could a person be brought in and come before a King on the throne and receive something from that person, and BE that person??? Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:6-8.
How also does God in heaven speak to Jesus, while on earth, three times, Matt 3:17, 17:5, John 12:28.
Since the Bible says that no deception was found in Jesus mouth, he was not fooling people by the act of a ventriloquist, 1Pet 2:21,22.
Jesus said that the Father is greater that he is, and that the Father in heaven is his Father, and that the Father in heaven is the ONLY TRUE GOD, John 14:28, 20:17, John 17:3.

 

[kjw47]

Aamer,
You have just added to the long list of reasons why Jesus cannot be God.
Think about this also, How could a person be brought in and come before a King on the throne and receive something from that person, and BE that person??? Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:6-8.
How also does God in heaven speak to Jesus, while on earth, three times, Matt 3:17, 17:5, John 12:28.
Since the Bible says that no deception was found in Jesus mouth, he was not fooling people by the act of a ventriloquist, 1Pet 2:21,22.
Jesus said that the Father is greater that he is, and that the Father in heaven is his Father, and that the Father in heaven is the ONLY TRUE GOD, John 14:28, 20:17, John 17:3.

It is odd to me that when one points out truth straight from Jesus truths written in Gods word--- they will not believe him over men' dogma.
You are right--Jesus teaches the one who sent him = Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. at John 17:1-6-- verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)

The trinity teaching is calling Jesus a liar--Paul backed Jesus truth at 1 cor 8:6)

trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead.

 

[Shiranui117]

Aamer,
You have just added to the long list of reasons why Jesus cannot be God.
Think about this also, How could a person be brought in and come before a King on the throne and receive something from that person, and BE that person??? Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:6-8.
How also does God in heaven speak to Jesus, while on earth, three times, Matt 3:17, 17:5, John 12:28.
Since the Bible says that no deception was found in Jesus mouth, he was not fooling people by the act of a ventriloquist, 1Pet 2:21,22.
Jesus said that the Father is greater that he is, and that the Father in heaven is his Father, and that the Father in heaven is the ONLY TRUE GOD, John 14:28, 20:17, John 17:3.

No, those are just ways that Jesus cannot be the Father. They in no way disprove Jesus' Divinity--which, mind you, was believed and defended by the personal students of the Apostles, whose writings we have intact in their original form today. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch, the personal student of St. John the Apostle and the second bishop of Antioch after St. Peter, calls Jesus God.

Seriously, as soon as you stop looking at just the Bible and look at the rest of what the Apostles taught to their students, successors and congregations, then you start to learn what the Apostles and the early Church actually believed--not just what you think they believed. But, alas, Sola Scriptura is more convenient for most people--it enables them to manipulate the Scriptures to whatever people want them to say. Reading the Scriptures in light of the proper context of the rest of Christian teaching means that we can't have it our way.

 

[Dinner123]

No, those are just ways that Jesus cannot be the Father. They in no way disprove Jesus' Divinity--which, mind you, was believed and defended by the personal students of the Apostles, whose writings we have intact in their original form today. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch, the personal student of St. John the Apostle and the second bishop of Antioch after St. Peter, calls Jesus God.

Seriously, as soon as you stop looking at just the Bible and look at the rest of what the Apostles taught to their students, successors and congregations, then you start to learn what the Apostles and the early Church actually believed--not just what you think they believed. But, alas, Sola Scriptura is more convenient for most people--it enables them to manipulate the Scriptures to whatever people want them to say. Reading the Scriptures in light of the proper context of the rest of Christian teaching means that we can't have it our way.

So Ignatius believed Jesus is God, but can you prove Ignatius believed the trinity doctrine?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were eye witnesses.

No they weren't.

I would argue that Matthew (if it is referring to the disciple) and John are the only potential witnesses That is debated by scholars to this day.

However Mark and Luke were not eye witnesses.

 

[Repox]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

I don't believe it happened, God was not tempted by Satan. That was written by uninformed authors of the gospels. They made up a narrative based on a son of God theme. God is perfect, and therefore can never be tempted by his creation. That would mean Satan has powers equal to God, which is impossible. There was never, and can never be, a test of God's holiness or perfection.

I believe God and Jesus are the same. I also believe God is a duality. As Jesus, God spoke about his dual nature. Unfortunately, gospel writers didn't understand, so they concocted stories about the son of God. If you research the Old Testament you will find no son of God, just the Lord.

 

[Shiranui117]

So Ignatius believed Jesus is God, but can you prove Ignatius believed the trinity doctrine?

He at least had a triadic thought, while affirming God's oneness; this is clear from his Epistle to the Magnesians, chapter 13 (in the shorter, authentic recension):

Be diligent therefore to be confirmed in the decrees of the Lord and the Apostles, that in everything which you do, you may be prospered in flesh and spirit, by faith and love, in the Son and Father and in the Spirit,[3]

[3] This confession, couched in an anti-Docetic form, may indicate that Ignatius feared the danger of Docetism at Magnesia. Or possibly he is thinking of the dangers threatening other churches, and so gives an anticipatory warning to the Magnesians.

It is true that none of the Apostolic Fathers, St. Ignatius included, expressed their thoughts in the terminology and definitions provided by the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople. But to say that they didn't believe in some sort of Trinity is false; the idea is there, even if the Fathers aren't quite sure how to put it in words. The essence of their statements about God being both One and Three is the same as that of the later Fathers and Ecumenical Councils.

For more about St. Ignatius's proto-Trinitarian thought, see here.

 

[Ouroboros]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were eye witnesses.

Wait.

Even if the Gospels were written by the names that have been ascribed to them, Luke was not an eyewitness. Luke was supposedly a medical student who later did research on the history of Jesus. At least that's what I remember from my Christian school.

 

[Ouroboros]

Don't for get Acts as well as most of the rest of the NT authors

I don't think even the fundamentalist scholars believe Luke was an eyewitness to Jesus. Supposedly he interviewed eyewitnesses and made a compendium of their stories. It's impossible that he was an eyewitness to Jesus since he wasn't a disciple and he would have lived through Paul's life even when he fled and hid from the Christians!