If you don't believe in much of what you used to, its hardly going to bother me. What don't you believe anymore? What do you doubt?
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If the Jewish Messiah has already come….
- Thread starter roger1440
- Start date
If you don't believe in much of what you used to, its hardly going to bother me. What don't you believe anymore? What do you doubt?
roger1440
I do stuff
I am serious. I have asked a very simple question. How is Jesus the Messiah? All I get is he is the Messiah because it’s written in the Bible.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Right...because this sounds like a crucifixion
"And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand."
this is exactly how one gets nailed to a cross:
"But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities;"
crushing=crucifixion!
Now it all makes sense.
You don't think the existence of a worldwide community of His followers that has endured nearly 2,000 years and has become the most widespread global religion on the planet consisting of one third of its inhabitants may constitute a proof also? If not, what would satisfy you?
roger1440
I do stuff
You had conveniently forgot to mention the sword to coerce people to convert, seems pretty persuasive to me. “Convert or die”. You are telling because Christianity is a worldwide religion Christ must have existed. If that is true then before it was a worldwide religion he did not exist.
I think you are overplaying the Devils advocate role! This is one of a number or proofs. It is an obvious proof to us now amidst what is written. The core proof is the Life and Teachings of Jesus of which we only have a written record to go on. Maybe if you had meet Him....but then Caiaphas did and that didn't seem to suffice either.
roger1440
I do stuff
Explain these verses to me:
The New Covenant
31 o“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make pa new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, qI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord. sFor this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: sI will put my law within them, and I will write it ton their hearts. uAnd I will be their God, and they shall be my people. vfor they shall all know me, wfrom the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For xI will forgive their iniquity, and yI will remember their sin no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31–34)
Looks like a reference to the second coming of Christ and His kingdom on earth. I don't think it refers specifically to Jesus.
roger1440
I do stuff
Are you implying Christ and Jesus are two different people?
John the Baptist was the return of Elijah. He had the same type of spirit, not body. Its the only example of its kind in the NT. John the Baptist denied being Elijah (John 1:21). Jesus confirmed he was.(Matthew 11:14;17:10-13; Mark 9:11-13). There's no contradiction between the two statements as John denies he is the physical Elijah, and Jesus confirms he is the spiritual Elijah. It is the only example of a return of an old testament prophet in the NT that I'm aware of it and it explains perfectly the nature of how The Christ will return again. It gets us away from these literal interpretations taken from highly symbolic writings such as the Olivet discourse, book of revelation etc.
Jesus was The Christ and The Christ who returns will have the same Spirit but not physical body....besides how would we recognise Him anyhow if He did have the same physical body. It doesn't make sense.
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roger1440
I do stuff
The term “New Testament” means “New Covenant”. This “New Covenant” comes from the prophecy found in Jeremiah 31:31–34. To understand the “New Covenant” of the Gospels the reader must not only be familiar with Jeremiah’s “New Covenant” but also understand what it means. In other words a prerequisite to the reading of the Gospels is Jeremiah’s prophecy. That must be the starting point. Keep in mind the Gospels were written by Jews, for Jews using Jewish theology.
Sure. The "Old Covenant" is based on Mosaic Law, and the "New Covenant" is Based on the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. However the Covenant that The Returned Christ makes with His people establishing his Kingdom on earth is also a "New Covenant".
Often with prophecy such as Jesus' Sermon on the Mount of Olives He is weaving together 2 separated but related events, the destruction of the temple and His resurrection, but also His second coming.
It may also be helpful to remember that there have been previous Covenants as well, for example with Noah, and Abraham.
I do question further some of what you have written here so bear with me please.
(1) A Christian may be an excellent reflection of the Holy Teachings of Jesus without ever having heard of Jeremiah practicing the basics of love, compassion, forgiveness and leading the life and be a light to all those around him. However he may not have a great knowledge of the history of his Faith. On the other hand a man who is learned and a scholar could be arrogant and a thorn in the side of many he comes across. I think its important to have the knowledge but much more important of have the spiritual qualities. If we can have both then that is excellent.
(2) It was the pure in heart that recognised Jesus as The Christ early on, not the Jewish scholars/leaders. However as the message spread it became important to be able to have men of learning and virtue that could explain how Jesus was the Messiah. Of course this was achieved in part by the preaching of men such as Peter and Paul.
(3) As mentioned in a previous post the early spread of the Gospels moved from the Jews to the Gentiles early on. Knowledge about Greco-Roman culture is arguably much more accessible than Jewish culture at that time. The style of preaching needed to adapt to non-Jews very quickly.
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Over the years I have heard stories of ghosts, goblins, fairies, big foot, alien abductions, witches, warlocks, gremlins, nymphs, vampires, the bogeyman, dragons, elves, genies, zombies, Lock Ness Monster, leprechauns, mermaids, unicorns and the list goes on and on. I should believe all of them without question?
Answwer my question---do you question biographies about Lincoln?
No Jew except Jesus, theh Messiah, has ever died for my sins.
Tumah
Veteran Member
No Jew has ever died for your sins. Excepting no one. However, there were many Jews who died because of the sins of your ancestors (or at least their co-nationals).
roger1440
I do stuff
No I Don’t. But I would if his biographies said he was born of a virgin or from the planet Mars.
Good partial list. Jewish theology teaches the Messiah can't die.
Mt 21:4-5 is the only time Jesus announced publically He was the Messiah and He did it without saying a word.
The Bible teaches that the natural man can't understand the things of God, they are foolishness to him( I Cor 2:14).
You may understand them but not believe them. If you believe they are true. You may be at least 9/10th a Christian and not have far to go. I was 45, when I got my last tenth, so you may make it yet.