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That is correct--the Bible never says what fruit is was, so to call it an apple is certainly not what the Bible said. You already said, howver, didn't you? that the account was not literal but allegorical, or something like that. So what's the story here by you with Adam and Eve and death, etc. ?
Would you say that everybody gets past that hurdle though? I mean, the average person lives for what, 70-80 years, but the afterlife is forever after that. Are you Universalist as a Baha’i or do you believe some really bad people are eternally doomed to suffer in Hell forever?
I have read enough to know what is in it, and what is not in it.
Can you cite the verses that say exactly that?
No, I don't believe that everyone gets past that hurdle, but I think that God takes into consideration all the things people had sto struggle with in this life, because God is the All-Merciful and All-Forgiving.
Because God created those people who make such choices. Why doesn't God only make good people so there are no murders or raes, among otehr crimes? Now before you insist these would be robots isn't it true that you don't commit murder and have free will? If so, then my point is why aren't all people similar to you who have free will but don't commit murder?
Why would we? The bare minimum job requirement of God is to make good decisions in how it creatres the universe. That God creates people who decide to commit murder and rape is on God (assuming the usual assumptions and interpretations of believers).
Your argumentation is naive and overly simplistic, as if all humans are the same, have the same opportunities in life, have stable emotions and life stories, and it all comes down to making basic yes/no choices. You ignore the many factors that lead individuals to behave well or badly in life. Free will is often used by believers, but who cares? It doesn't mean foolish and immature. If a God exists as believers assume the question is why God made so many humans so flawed they never have a chance to make better decisions in life. An old friend of mine killed himself last week despite having three kids and a successful business. He struggled with depression his whole life, and had alcoholism that he worked hard to manage. His wife divorced him about a year ago, but he was not talking about his feelings. We are all stunned. Did he choose depression? Sometimes people break.
Then God should have made more people like you. If it is all reduced to just how a person makes decisions then God could make more sensible people. About 1 in 24 people are born sociopaths, and they lack certain abilities to be empathetic. That's on God, not a chocie. They simply don't know any better.
Why not? If God doesn't want negative effects of murder and rape why isn't he creating peoplke capable of good choices? You want it both ways.
No they aren't, as people will learn what is socially acceptable and make choices based on what their society says is moral. Had Hitler not invaded Russia it is likely the Nazis would have remained in power indefinately and more Jews exterminated. Why did so many in Europe choose to be anti-Semitic with Jews being God's chosen?
Because truth conforms to facts, and if you believers can't agree, which you don;t, then how can any of you claim truth and be taken seriously? Scientists follow facts and use the scientific method, so what they report is highly credible, and consistent among all scientists. This is why evolution is accepted, and creationism is baseless, and of course religious.
Why would a rarional person assume something exists when it can't be verified? So I will wait, and until then I'm not convinced.
I think you underestimate the level of game you like playing.
If you will read John chapters 11 and 12 (not long reading) it will explain clearly that Lazarus was resurrected. brought back from the dead.
Unfotunately, what you're saying doesn't make sense. Either we die because of Adam, or we do not die because of (a literal) Adam. Have a good night.
I read the chapters but I do not see what you claimed it says.
We die because our bodies were created by God to be mortal. We do not die becaue Adam ate a piece of fruit from a tree.
The description of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead is in John 11 & 12. I suggest you might want to read that to realize that the Bible says Lazarus (1) came back from the dead, and (2) he lived on the earth before and after his resurrection by Jesus Christ.So again, John chapters 11 & 12. We can go into the other subject about Adam and death inherited later perhaps. But first let me know what you think of John 11 and 12. G'night.
You don't? Perhaps you're not looking at it correctly. Who came back from the dead? Was Lazarus dead? Did he come out of the tomb? John 12 shows that the resurrected Lazarus was with Jesus. Just a little bit from John 12, Trailblazer -- "Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him." Hope that helps.
I have free will and I don't commit murder because I choose not to commit murder.
God did make good decisions in how He created the universe but after that God was out of the game. God bears no responsibly for how humans choose to maintain the world he created. God did not create people who decide to commit murder and rape. People choose to commit murder and rape and then they commit murder and rape. The decision to commit murder and rape was not God's decision, and that is why God never goes on trial. in a court of law, nobody blames God for murder and rape, not even atheists, becaue they know better. Only atheists on forums blame God for murder and rape.
I do not ignore those factors and neither does God. God will take into consideration why people behaved badly, such as if it was owing to life situations over which they had no control like bad genetics or a difficult childhood.
God did not make humans flawed such that they never have a chance to make better decisions in life. It is the life situations they find themselves in that determines what decisions they will make, mostly affected by their childhood upbringing, but also affected by their adult experiences which are sometimes tragic. I would be dead by now if I did not believe in God because I have been suicidal many times.
God does not make sensible people or foolish people. People become that way by how they live life.
God created people capable of making good choices but some people choose to make bad choices.
If you are referring to God, a rational person would know that God can never be verified, so they can choose to believe on faith, or not believe at all.
It is not a game for me. Sometimes I like it but more often I only do it because I feel it is my responsibility.
It really does not matter to me what it says because I consider it a fictional story just like many other stories in the Bible.
I don't think there is a place in Baha'i Writings where there is always a chance to get out of hell. There are some who apparently can't get out.
So does that mean that people who abhor God might go to hell and be there forever?
Courts of law didn't give you your genes, your parents, your experiences as you grew up. They didn't give you a low IQ or a short attention span or a reading disorder or a low ability to postpone gratification, or parents on drugs, or infant traumas, &c &c.
