If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?

[dybmh]

So what is the resurrection of the dead? It is not the resurrection of dead bodies from their graves.
Clearly, the body that will be raised is a spiritual body, not a physical body.

Are you looking for a verse that clearly describes a bodily ressurection?

Isaiah 26:19, it clearly says the corpse will awaken. That's an actual dead body coming back to life.

יִֽחְיוּ מֵתֶיךָ נְבֵֽלָתִי יְקוּמוּן הָקִיצוּ וְרַנְּנוּ שֹֽׁכְנֵי עָפָר כִּי טַל אוֹרֹת טַלֶּךָ וָאָרֶץ רְפָאִים תַּפִּֽיל׃​

​

Your dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; for your dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the shades of the dead.​

Klein Dictionary, נְבֵלָה

נְבֵלָה f.n. 1 corpse, carcass. 2 an animal that died a natural death. PBH 3 an animal that was not slaughtered ritually. [Formed from נבל ᴵ (= to...

www.sefaria.org

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's my answer to the poll (although I didn't vote):

If there is a Hell, as popularlay described, and if anything larger than zero percent of humans go there, why the heck would you worship it's CREATOR?

I believe there is a Hell, but not as popularly described.
Although Hell is a not a place one goes to, I believe a percentage much larger than zero percent of humans wind up there because that is where they deserve to be AND/OR because many of them want to be there.

This part does not represent my religious beliefs, it is only my personal opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

My point is that ordinary human ideas and instincts about accountability don't work for God. If God exists, is all-powerful and benevolent ─ such claims are commonly made for [him] ─ then [he]'s known for the last 14 bn years that I was about to type this sentence with these letters, these little corrections of my typing, and exactly how and why my brain is doing this.

With such a god, NOTHING in the universe can happen contrary to [his] intention.

Just becaue God knows everything that has ever happened, what is happening now, and everything that is ever going to happen in the future, that does not mean God intends for it to happen (causes it to happen). There is no logical connection between knowledge and causation.

When you die, then, the only entity responsible for your crimes is God. All you ever did, thinking it was your own will and your own decisions, were made for you as you acted out what God had perfectly foreseen.

When you die, then, the only entity responsible for your crimes is you, since you have free will to choose and you chose to commit those crimes.

So when you die, and your part in the game of acting out God's intentions is finished, and God's plan includes a post-mortal you, why would [he] punish you?

Because we are not in a game of acting out God's intentions, we are acting our own intentions according to what we choose with our free will.

And now that you no longer have to act out [his] plan for the universe, where you lived when alive, and given (as i said) that God is benevolent, , well, there's nothing punishable in your past conduct, since it's [his] conduct too,

No, your conduct is not God's conduct, it is your conduct, and you are accountable to God for it. Whether God punishes anyone is another matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you looking for a verse that clearly describes a bodily ressurection?

No, I am not looking for one, because I know that dead bodies do not come back to life.
Nothing could be more absurd, nothing.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No, I am not looking for one, because I know that dead bodies do not come back to life.
Nothing could be more absurd, nothing.

As I've previously stated, I've seen human spirits who appeared to be living people but were clearly spirits because they walked right through a door or a wall. These spirits (full-body apparitions) are fairly common at historic sites such as Civil War battlefields and other locations associated with the Civil War.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I've previously stated, I've seen human spirits who appeared to be living people but were clearly spirits because they walked right through a door or a wall. These spirits (full-body apparitions) are fairly common at historic sites such as Civil War battlefields and other locations associated with the Civil War.

So just because they might have looked like a dead body that had come back to life that does not mean they were.
I trust you and your experiences more than I trust what the Bible says. The Bible has far too many problems.

 

[dybmh]

No, I am not looking for one, because I know that dead bodies do not come back to life.
Nothing could be more absurd, nothing.

Hey, I totally understand. But! If a person is going to believe something absurd, it's a whole lot better to be able to point to scripture to back it up, rather than have an absurd idea based on a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

So just because they might have looked like a dead body that had come back to life that does not mean they were.
I trust you and your experiences more than I trust what the Bible says. The Bible has far too many problems.

No, these spirits were not actual living people, despite being misidentified as such by others who witnessed them firsthand, as I have.

 

[blü 2]

Just becaue God knows everything that has ever happened, what is happening now, and everything that is ever going to happen in the future, that does not mean God intends for it to happen (causes it to happen). There is no logical connection between knowledge and causation.

Then you have a choice ─ when God made the universe (a) [he] knew what [he] was doing, and foresaw all the consequences of [his] act with perfect foresight or (b) [he] didn't know what [he] was doing, and had [his] fingers and toes crossed.

When you die, then, the only entity responsible for your crimes is you, since you have free will to choose and you chose to commit those crimes.

No, that's a human viewpoint, It doesn't apply to an omniscient God. Your will can't be totally free because you can't make a decision independently of the evolved decision-making processes of your brain, and the ability not to be influenced by one's upbringing and life experiences, whether as a college graduate or the drop-out child of druggie parent, is finite indeed.

Because we are not in a game of acting out God's intentions, we are acting our own intentions according to what we choose with our free will.

No, if there's an omniscient omnipotent God then all we can ever do is exactly what [he] perfectly foresaw and intended when [he] made the universe. Of course, if [he]'s not omniscient and not omnipotent then [he]'s just winging it like us.

No, your conduct is not God's conduct, it is your conduct, and you are accountable to God for it. Whether God punishes anyone is another matter.

No, see above.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then you have a choice ─ when God made the universe (a) [he] knew what [he] was doing, and foresaw all the consequences of [his] act with perfect foresight or (b) [he] didn't know what [he] was doing, and had [his] fingers and toes crossed.

Foreseeing what was going to happen does not cause it to happen.
An astronomer foresees that an eclipse will take place at a certain time in the future but that does not cause the eclipse to take place.
It is the same with God's foreknowledge.

No, that's a human viewpoint, It doesn't apply to an omniscient God. Your will can't be totally free because you can't make a decision independently of the evolved decision-making processes of your brain, and the ability not to be influenced by one's upbringing and life experiences, whether as a college graduate or the drop-out child of druggie parent, is finite indeed.

God is not involved in human decision-making, but I agree that free will is not totally free. It is circumscribed by many factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances.

No, if there's an omniscient omnipotent God then all we can ever do is exactly what [he] perfectly foresaw and intended when [he] made the universe. Of course, if [he]'s not omniscient and not omnipotent then [he]'s just winging it like us.

We will do what God foresaw only because God has perfect foreknowledge of what will happen in the future. We won't do it because God foresaw it, we will do it because we chose to do it. In other words, we will choose to do what God knows we will choose to do.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I am not looking for one, because I know that dead bodies do not come back to life.
Nothing could be more absurd, nothing.

Once again, just to establish your view of the Bible, are you saying you don't believe that Jesus resurrected his friend Lazarus?

 

[YoursTrue]

As I've previously stated, I've seen human spirits who appeared to be living people but were clearly spirits because they walked right through a door or a wall. TheseI spirits (full-body apparitions) are fairly common at historic sites such as Civil War battlefields and other locations associated with the Civil War.

Have you spoken to @Dan From Smithville about this? I'd sure like to see how he interprets your views. Thanks.

 

[Trailblazer]

Once again, just to establish your view of the Bible, are you saying you don't believe that Jesus resurrected his friend Lazarus?

No, I don't believe it really happened. I believe the story was allegorical.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Have you spoken to @Dan From Smithville about this? I'd sure like to see how he interprets your views. Thanks.

I mean no disrespect to Dan, and it's not personal, but I'm not interested in how he interprets anything I've said recently or previously about my medium abilities or about my experiences as a medium. As I've stated numerous times on this forum (for example, in this thread; see here and here), I won't argue or debate with anyone about my mediumship or my experiences as a medium and paranormal investigator. As far as I'm concerned, people are free to believe me or not, and the decision is entirely up to them. I believe I've made it abundantly clear in my posts regarding these subjects that I don't care one way or the other. Any skepticism or religious objection to my mediumship abilities is irrelevant to me because these objections about whether my abilities are real or not won't alter the fact that I have lived with them my entire life, and I won't suppress them again out of fear of what other people will think.

As I've stated in similar discussions, I don't post about my experiences as a medium or with the paranormal in order to argue, debate, or persuade skeptics to believe me. I post about my mediumship on RF so that others who don't have these abilities can experience what I see, hear, and feel on a daily basis. I also post threads detailing my paranormal investigations in order to share my experiences with others who haven't had paranormal experiences like mine.

And, as I explained in another thread (see here), I've spent over a year on this forum, posting about my personal experiences as a psychic medium and seasoned paranormal investigator, as well as commenting in numerous other threads. RF has given me a unique platform to discuss my mediumship and paranormal experiences. I've never been on a forum like this one or even on Facebook (or any other social media platform) where I felt free to discuss these topics without fear of being constantly slammed with malicious remarks that call my sanity into question or relentlessly lectured about believing in the paranormal. I sincerely value my anonymity on RF, and I'm grateful to be a part of this diverse online community. RF has become my online sanctuary.

Finally, I want to make it clear that I don't care what Christians believe about psychic mediumship or what they think about mine or my experiences as a medium and paranormal investigator. As far as I'm concerned, they should mind their own business and keep their pious judgments to themselves, as well as refrain from imposing their beliefs on others. If Christians spent a little more time minding their own business, they would have less time to mind mine.

 

[cataway]

I mean no disrespect to Dan, and it's not personal, but I'm not interested in how he interprets anything I've said recently or previously about my medium abilities or about my experiences as a medium. As I've said many times on this forum and in this thread (for example, see here and here), I will not argue or debate with anyone about my mediumship or my experiences as a medium and paranormal investigator. As far as I'm concerned, people are free to believe me or not, and the decision is entirely up to them. I believe I've made it abundantly clear in my posts regarding these subjects that I don't care one way or the other. Any skepticism or religious objection to my mediumship abilities is irrelevant to me because these objections about whether my abilities are real or not won't alter the fact that I have lived with them my entire life, and I won't suppress them again out of fear of what other people will think.

As I've stated in similar discussions, I don't post about my experiences as a medium or with the paranormal in order to argue, debate, or persuade skeptics to believe me. I post about my mediumship on RF so that others who don't have these abilities can experience what I see, hear, and feel on a daily basis. I also post threads detailing my paranormal investigations in order to share my experiences with others who haven't had paranormal experiences like mine.

And, as I mentioned earlier in this thread (see here), I've spent over a year on this forum, posting about my personal experiences as a psychic medium and seasoned paranormal investigator, as well as commenting in numerous other threads. RF has given me a unique platform to discuss my mediumship and paranormal experiences. I've never been on a forum like this one or even on Facebook (or any other social media platform) where I felt free to discuss these topics without fear of being constantly slammed with malicious remarks that call my sanity into question or relentlessly lectured about believing in the paranormal. I sincerely value my anonymity on RF, and I'm grateful to be a part of this diverse online community. RF has become my online sanctuary.

Finally, I want to make it clear that I don't care what Christians believe about psychic mediumship or what they think about mine or my experiences as a medium and paranormal investigator. As far as I'm concerned, they should mind their own business and keep their pious judgments to themselves, as well as refrain from imposing their beliefs on others. If Christians spent a little more time minding their own business, they would have less time to mind mine.

ah you don't like Matthew 24:14 ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, I am not looking for one, because I know that dead bodies do not come back to life.
Nothing could be more absurd, nothing.

We return to dust - Gen 3:19 - so Not the old dead body but being in God's memory, being named in God's Book of Life
Resurrected in a sound physical body, a healthy body with no missing parts. Same person but in good health.
Not missing teeth nor missing hair, but missing eye glasses and hearing aids.

 

[Trailblazer]

We return to dust - Gen 3:19 - so Not the old dead body but being in God's memory, being named in God's Book of Life
Resurrected in a sound physical body, a healthy body with no missing parts. Same person but in good health.
Not missing teeth nor missing hair, but missing eye glasses and hearing aids.

I know that is what you look forward to but I am sorry to say that none of that is supported by the Bible.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I know that is what you look forward to but I am sorry to say that none of that is supported by the Bible.

In my opinion, the Bible is about as reliable and truthful as the National Enquirer. As a medium, I have a lifetime of experience seeing, hearing, interacting with, and speaking with earthbound human spirits, as well as fifteen years of experience as a paranormal investigator. I personally know other mediums and paranormal investigators whom I trust who have had similar experiences with spirits as I have. Based on my experience as a medium and paranormal investigator (as well as the experiences of other mediums and paranormal investigators), I believe that there is far too much ample proof of earthbound human spirits for me to continue believing what I consider to be nonsense in the Bible about the spirit realm and what happens to people after they die.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion, the Bible is about as reliable and truthful as the National Enquirer. As a medium, I have a lifetime of experience seeing, hearing, interacting with, and speaking with earthbound human spirits, as well as fifteen years of experience as a paranormal investigator. I personally know other mediums and paranormal investigators whom I trust who have had similar experiences with spirits as I have. Based on my experience as a medium and paranormal investigator (as well as the experiences of other mediums and paranormal investigators), I believe that there is far too much ample proof of earthbound human spirits for me to continue believing what I consider to be nonsense in the Bible about the spirit realm and what happens to people after they die.

National Enquirer, lol.
I'll take your personal experience over the Bible any day.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I don't believe it really happened. I believe the story was allegorical.

Ok. Thanks for expressing your opinion about this.