If there is no god. What's the purpose of this life?

[YoursTrue]

Perfectly.

ok. Also, many people who did want they want come down with all sorts of sexually transmitted diseases, are lawless,

 

[Nimos]

Yes, I believe you are right about that, as I noted above. There is more to life than personal happiness, and I consider that a rather shallow goal, as I believe we should be thinking in terms of other people and the state of the world, not only ourselves.

You shouldn't look at it as a purely selfish goal, even though that is ultimately what it ends up with. But rather that happiness comes in different shapes and forms as a result of doing whatever we enjoy. For instance, you like looking out for your cats and that makes you happy. The happiness you get from that is a byproduct of your action. Your motivation for doing it is not to achieve happiness, but because you like taking care of them. In contrast, you can look at those tv shows where they collect money for some people that have a rough life, that whole concept is pretty much built around the idea of people feeling good about themselves or buying a bit of "happiness/clap on the shoulder" for a few hours. Not saying that it is bad, but merely that the majority of people/companies giving money to these things do it hoping that it will help and to feel better about themselves or promote themselves.

I don't think anyone gets any true happiness out of giving money to these things, compared to for instance those people that have dedicated their life working in the field to help these people or animals or what they are trying to help.

So there is a difference between true happiness and then the "feel good about yourself" happiness. True happiness comes in all shapes and forms and doesn't rely on anything other than personal preference. You can be extremely rich with 10 wives and 15 kids yet still be unhappy, whereas someone owning nothing, living alone off the grid in a forest might have exactly what they need to be happy. Said in another way, it is not really something you can measure or decide. For instance, you didn't choose to like cats and enjoy taking care of them.

But there are certain things that we all share, such as good health, security etc. These I would argue improve happiness in general for everyone.

A 6-year-old did not have time to achieve his purpose but I believe that is taken into consideration by God and that child is compensated by God in the next life.

Yes let's hope so

God created us out of His love for us, and God knew He was going to love us before He created us.

I understand that view, but I don't really buy it. Because if that were the case, why did he wait so long with creating us? what were the dinosaurs all about? Also, it is someone difficult to believe that someone loving something would allow it to be hurt. If I wanted a hamster because I loved it, then I wouldn't fill its cage with things that could hurt/kill it, I would find that kind of weird

Also, it is kind of contradictory. God is considered a complete being, meaning that he doesn't need anything if he created us because he loved us or knew he was going to love us, then he wasn't complete, because he would lack the love for us with us not being there if that makes sense? But that is contradictory to an all-powerful God because he has desires.
Don't get me wrong I understand what you mean, but I don't really think it makes a lot of sense when one thinks about it in depth.

God can love us, but he can't have created us based on a desire, so we were always destined to be created as part of God's divine plan or something, just as everything else was, meaning that a stone is just as "loved" by God as we are.

 

[Trailblazer]

You shouldn't look at it as a purely selfish goal, even though that is ultimately what it ends up with. But rather that happiness comes in different shapes and forms as a result of doing whatever we enjoy. For instance, you like looking out for your cats and that makes you happy. The happiness you get from that is a byproduct of your action. Your motivation for doing it is not to achieve happiness, but because you like taking care of them.

That is a good point about the cats. Now that I am all alone the cats are the one thing that gives me a reason to live, I love them so much. I don't know why I do, I just do. My love for cats developed after age 30, I was not raised with any pets or loving animals.

So there is a difference between true happiness and then the "feel good about yourself" happiness. True happiness comes in all shapes and forms and doesn't rely on anything other than personal preference. You can be extremely rich with 10 wives and 15 kids yet still be unhappy, whereas someone owning nothing, living alone off the grid in a forest might have exactly what they need to be happy. Said in another way, it is not really something you can measure or decide. For instance, you didn't choose to like cats and enjoy taking care of them.

But there are certain things that we all share, such as good health, security etc. These I would argue improve happiness in general for everyone.

I agree. True happiness comes in all shapes and forms and doesn't rely on anything other than personal preference, and we are all very different in what we prefer.

I understand that view, but I don't really buy it. Because if that were the case, why did he wait so long with creating us? what were the dinosaurs all about?

Well, you have been on this forum posting to religious people long enough to know that what God does doesn't always make logical sense to us. Regarding why God waited so long to let us evolve, we cannot know why God does what God does, but I am sure He had His reasons.

Also, it is someone difficult to believe that someone loving something would allow it to be hurt. If I wanted a hamster because I loved it, then I wouldn't fill its cage with things that could hurt/kill it, I would find that kind of weird.

Well, as you know, that is the part I do not understand and I probably never will.

Yesterday, when I was walking on the trail, I saw a doe and two fawns, and they were headed down to the highway to cross it. I tried to chase them up the road away from the highway to no avail as that doe had her mind made up. The fawns were confused and I think I was making matters worse, but I just wanted to save their lives because I know how fast cars drive on that highway. As luck would have it she crossed when there was no traffic and she did it quickly and the fawns followed her quickly. I was so happy that I started to cry and I thanked God they made it to the other side.

Also, it is kind of contradictory. God is considered a complete being, meaning that he doesn't need anything if he created us because he loved us or knew he was going to love us, then he wasn't complete, because he would lack the love for us with us not being there if that makes sense? But that is contradictory to an all-powerful God because he has desires.
Don't get me wrong I understand what you mean, but I don't really think it makes a lot of sense when one thinks about it in depth.

It doesn't make sense to believe that God needs our love, because as you said God is complete so God has no needs, but a desire is not a need. So it makes sense if you think God has desires and one desire is for our love.

God can love us, but he can't have created us based on a desire, so we were always destined to be created as part of God's divine plan or something, just as everything else was, meaning that a stone is just as "loved" by God as we are.

I believe that God loves all of His creation, but He loves humans the most. Of course that is the biblical view and the Baha'i view. However, it is kind of ironic since humans can be so evil and nothing else in creation is evil. I guess the point is that God loves us in spite of the fact that we are all sinners, so we can say God is the All-Merciful and the Ever-Forgiving, as Baha'is believe.

 

[nPeace]

So you can't really say that life would make no sense if no god existed.

I don't see the logic in that. How did you arrive there.
Life makes no sense without purpose.
Can you explain the connection between fruits and vegetables and benefits to human health, without purpose?
Can you explain their existence at all?

I didn't refer to meaning. I referred to the chemistry and physics.

Please elaborate.

The chemistry and physics. What makes humans more special than any other form of life? Your say so, as a human?

I don't see anything else working in labs. Do you?
Oh wait.

That thread asks the question, it doesn't answer it. You haven't answered it either.

Why the rush? Taking time does not give one ulcers, and patience is a virtue.

 

[nPeace]

If Earth is mainly about human life, then how is it that we've only been around for roughly 6 million years whereas the planet is over 5 billion years old? I'm not implying there's not a god(s), but it does seemingly imply that Earth wasn't mostly created for us.

While the men and women can't be sure of the estimates they give us, we can measure how long it takes corn to cook... pretty accurately.
I would say, the earth was here a long time before humans, for the same reason people cook corn, or rice. It's prepared to be just right for the purpose.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't think that really offers a lot

Assuming that there is a God, the purpose of life has to go beyond simply getting to know and love God I think. In the atheistic view, the purpose of life is rather individual, yet I think we can all agree that the purpose must be to achieve happiness and to do this without hurting others. Obviously, some will try to achieve happiness regardless of who they hurt, but even in that case, happiness is still the ultimate goal.

But with a God, I would assume a divine purpose set by God, something that goes beyond simply achieving happiness. And it also has to hold true for everyone. If a religious person can only achieve their goal when they are at the edge of death then, one could argue that a 6-year-old wouldn't have had the chance to fulfil their purpose. From an atheist's point of view, this is "not an issue", because we all know and assume that the world in which we live can be cruel and that it is up to us to make sure that as many people are able to achieve the purpose of life of becoming happy or at least have the chance to.

But with a God, especially an intervening one, it would be extremely weird if there weren't a divine purpose or if God didn't get something out of this whole thing he has created. Because if he doesn't then it is difficult to see why he would create us in the first place.

You have to ask what does God want you to do? Now let's say that there is a God. Would you think this God wants people to crawl on the ground in front of Him day and night?

 

[Nimos]

You have to ask what does God want you to do? Now let's say that there is a God. Would you think this God wants people to crawl on the ground in front of Him day and night?

I don't know. I have no clue what a God would want, there is nothing that seems especially obvious or that such a God would want at all.
It's best comparable to asking what we want from a single ant in a random forest somewhere in the world, and with God, it would be even more extreme.

 

[metis]

While the men and women can't be sure of the estimates they give us, we can measure how long it takes corn to cook... pretty accurately.
I would say, the earth was here a long time before humans, for the same reason people cook corn, or rice. It's prepared to be just right for the purpose.

But that really doesn't deal with the point but only walks around it.

We can pretty much apply timing to what about the peoples who existed before Jesus? Didn't they count in the "eyes of God"? Same with those who existed before Judaism and the scriptures they wrote?

Please note that I'm not questioning what Jesus said, especially with his Two Commandments that I believe are the crux of both the Jewish and the Christian scriptures, and I very much accept and try to adhere to that as best as I can, and I believe you probably do as well.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe Human beings were created, for way more than working a 9-5, raising a family, then dying. What are your thoughts?

I've always thought that one day, God got bored with being God and needed some entertainment.

 

[F1fan]

I don't see the logic in that. How did you arrive there.
Life makes no sense without purpose.

And that purpose is up to you. There is no inherent purpose that you have pointed to.

Can you explain the connection between fruits and vegetables and benefits to human health, without purpose?

Evolution. All animals, including humans, evolved by eating whatever food sources were available. Humans eventually organized and settled so they could raise animals and cultivate grains.

Can you explain their existence at all?

Evolution.

Please elaborate.

All living organizms are chemistry and physics. If you don't understand basic biology then you should read up. From reputable sources, not creationists.

I don't see anything else working in labs. Do you?
Oh wait.

You are a science denier according to some of your posts. Humans are primates. We aren't chimps. Humans and chimps evolved separately.

Why the rush? Taking time does not give one ulcers, and patience is a virtue.

Yet you have accepted and adopted Christian ideas that are not factual. I suggest you rushed to judgment. But I am assuming you put thought into Christian concepts. There is no rational basis to conclude any religious concepts are true in reality.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't know. I have no clue what a God would want, there is nothing that seems especially obvious or that such a God would want at all.
It's best comparable to asking what we want from a single ant in a random forest somewhere in the world, and with God, it would be even more extreme.

To me what is obvious now (it wasn't always my belief) is that God wants us to enjoy life. There are many things to enjoy. And then He wants us to enjoy life forever. Jesus said it means everlasting life to take in knowledge of God. (John 17:3.)

 

[metis]

Yet you have accepted and adopted Christian ideas that are not factual.

Just a point of clarification, years ago I saw a survey of Christian theologians, and roughly 70% said that they accepted the ToE as long as it was understood God was behind it all. Even many who belong to fundamentalist denominations, including many pastors, believe this but cannot talk about it with their congregations for fear of backlash. A Baptist minister back in the 70's took a confidential survey of Baptist pastors and found that many of them did believe in the ToE but couldn't mention this to their congregations.

 

[nPeace]

But that really doesn't deal with the point but only walks around it.

We can pretty much apply timing to what about the peoples who existed before Jesus? Didn't they count in the "eyes of God"? Same with those who existed before Judaism and the scriptures they wrote?

Please note that I'm not questioning what Jesus said, especially with his Two Commandments that I believe are the crux of both the Jewish and the Christian scriptures, and I very much accept and try to adhere to that as best as I can, and I believe you probably do as well.

You lost me, sorry. Did you understand what I said?
The earth being prepared for human arrival... how does that walk around the point? What was the point, in case I didn't understand you?

 

[nPeace]

And that purpose is up to you. There is no inherent purpose that you have pointed to.

Evolution. All animals, including humans, evolved by eating whatever food sources were available. Humans eventually organized and settled so they could raise animals and cultivate grains.

Evolution is the connection between fruits and vegetables and benefits to human health? How?

Evolution.

That's an explanation? I'm sorry, but can you explain. Evolution is a process which follows existence.
Why are there fruits and vegetables which are highly nutritional to human health?

All living organizms are chemistry and physics. If you don't understand basic biology then you should read up. From reputable sources, not creationists.

The common response of F1fan.

You are a science denier according to some of your posts. Humans are primates. We aren't chimps. Humans and chimps evolved separately.

Obviously, you did not follow what I said.
What does this have to do with what I said? Nothing. ...and to claim that I deny science, is to claim that scientists deny science... which is absurd.
I pointed that out to you before.
Bias is a very dangerous and blinding trait.

Please reread the post, and link my response to what you said. It does not run off on a tangent.

Yet you have accepted and adopted Christian ideas that are not factual. I suggest you rushed to judgment. But I am assuming you put thought into Christian concepts. There is no rational basis to conclude any religious concepts are true in reality.

Opinion acknowledged.

 

[metis]

You lost me, sorry. Did you understand what I said?
The earth being prepared for human arrival... how does that walk around the point? What was the point, in case I didn't understand you?

Frankly, I don't think I could really make it any clearer, but let me try one more time.

Jesus was here on Earth only 2000 years ago; Judaism and the OT came around roughly only about 3000 years ago; so, didn't all those who lived prior to then matter to God, especially since humans have been on Earth for roughly around 6 million years ago? So, didn't those who lived before Jesus and Judaism have a "purpose" in life for millions of years, which is the title of this thread?

However, this is not way is meant to diminish what Jesus taught with his Two Commandments.

 

[nPeace]

Frankly, I don't think I could really make it any clearer, but let me try one more time.

Jesus was here on Earth only 2000 years ago; Judaism and the OT came around roughly only about 3000 years ago; so, didn't all those who lived prior to then matter to God, especially since humans have been on Earth for roughly around 6 million years ago? So, didn't those who lived before Jesus and Judaism have a "purpose" in life for millions of years, which is the title of this thread?

Do you believe Adam and Eve had a purpose in life? What about Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob...?
They lived prior to Judaism.

However, this is not way is meant to diminish what Jesus taught with his Two Commandments.

I must have really misunderstood your question... which is what I responded to.

If Earth is mainly about human life, then how is it that we've only been around for roughly 6 million years whereas the planet is over 5 billion years old? I'm not implying there's not a god(s), but it does seemingly imply that Earth wasn't mostly created for us.

While the men and women can't be sure of the estimates they give us, we can measure how long it takes corn to cook... pretty accurately.
I would say, the earth was here a long time before humans, for the same reason people cook corn, or rice. It's prepared to be just right for the purpose.

Did you understand my response, because I am confused as to how what I said did not address the question of humans being on Earth for roughly around 6 million years, and their having a "purpose" in life for millions of years.

I thought you were saying that the earth could not have been created for man, since it has been around for billions of years, while man only existed about six million years.
Was I mistaken?

What do you think of the words of King David, and Isaiah.
(Psalm 115:15, 16) 15 May you be blessed by Jehovah, The Maker of heaven and earth. 16 As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.

(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited. . .

I didn't quote Genesis, since I think you consider it a myth. Is that correct?

 

[metis]

Do you believe Adam and Eve had a purpose in life? What about Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob...?
They lived prior to Judaism.

I assume they did, but it wasn't directed by the Judeo-Christian scriptures.

I thought you were saying that the earth could not have been created for man, since it has been around for billions of years, while man only existed about six million years.
Was I mistaken?

I don't assume to know why it was created, plus basically pretty much all religions have a creation account of some type except Buddhism.

I didn't quote Genesis, since I think you consider it a myth. Is that correct?

Genesis is likely a mixture, so no. However, even it was to be 100% "myth" that doesn't negate the importance of what it teaches in terms of right v wrong for example. We use the term "myth" in theology not to say X is wrong but that its main purpose is to teach whatever.

 

[YoursTrue]

Frankly, I don't think I could really make it any clearer, but let me try one more time.

Jesus was here on Earth only 2000 years ago; Judaism and the OT came around roughly only about 3000 years ago; so, didn't all those who lived prior to then matter to God, especially since humans have been on Earth for roughly around 6 million years ago? So, didn't those who lived before Jesus and Judaism have a "purpose" in life for millions of years, which is the title of this thread?

However, this is not way is meant to diminish what Jesus taught with his Two Commandments.

I am not sure when Abraham lived, but he is recorded in the Bible as having been faithful to God before the nation of Israel was formed.

 

[Nimos]

To me what is obvious now (it wasn't always my belief) is that God wants us to enjoy life. There are many things to enjoy. And then He wants us to enjoy life forever. Jesus said it means everlasting life to take in knowledge of God. (John 17:3.)

It might be.

To me, it is just not very obvious that this is what a God with such power would be interested in. If God simply finds enjoyment in us enjoying life, there would be no need for suffering as life for a lot of people is not an enjoyment or have more bad times than good.

If by forever you are referring to eternal life, then I think you run into issues with people that have suffered in this life and how they are going to cope in the afterlife. If it is as the bible says that there will be no suffering, then our current existence is pointless and is purely for the entertainment of God.

From what I can see, there is no way one can make these things fit together without ending up with them being contradictive.

 

[domsymonds]

I believe Human beings were created, for way more than working a 9-5, raising a family, then dying. What are your thoughts?

I believe we have no objective purpose in life because I don't believe we were created. However, I think it's far more rewarding to gain purpose subjectively from those around you or from things you choose to do in life than gaining purpose from a deity or from a religious text.