McBell
Admiral Obvious
I don't know...
Do you have anything new to present or are you still stuck with your same old song and dance?
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If you can't believe.....
- Thread starter Thief
- Start date
Do you have anything new to present or are you still stuck with your same old song and dance?
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Can I vote for the latter?
InChrist
Free4ever
I think some non-believers simply have a constant need to validate their non-belief with continual argument. There really is adequate proof for anyone to see the presence of God at work through human history.
"What does one say to a professed atheist when he demands proof that God exists? One could, of course, challenge him to prove that God doesn't exist—and to prove the preposterous scenario that the universe and even the human brain just happened by chance. In fact, since God is infinite, finite beings could never arrive at an indisputable proof either for or against His existence. Furthermore, "proofs" are really beside the point.
It is impossible to "prove" philosophically one's own existence—but who doubts it? Then why is a philosophical "proof" of God's existence demanded? Who needs "proof" that one's husband or wife or parent or child exists? If God really is, then He should be able to make Himself known. And if He can't do that, then whether He exists or not would be irrelevant to practical concerns.
Of course, the problem may not be that God isn't making Himself known, but that mankind fails to recognize Him when He does so."
"The Bible declares that the prophecies it provides concerning Israel supply the irrefutable evidence for God's existence—and for the fact that He has a purpose for mankind. History is not merely happenstance. It is going somewhere. There is a plan. Biblical prophecies declare it irrefutably.
Prophecy, which reveals God's plan in advance, is the missing element in all sacred scriptures of the world's religions, because false gods cannot provide it. Prophecy is not to be found in the Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. In contrast, prophecy comprises about 30 percent of the Bible.
Significantly, the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and makes certain that it happens as He said it would. In fact, God points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is none else. ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10 ).
There are two major topics of prophecy, both of which must be studied if one is to have any understanding of the Bible: 1) Israel; and 2) the Messiah, who would come to Israel and through her to the world. These two major topics involve specific fulfillments of prophecy that cannot be denied and which prove God's existence."
The God of Prophecy | thebereancall.org
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and you are still cloaked in shallow retort.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and your avatar speaks your sense of insight.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
which is still more than your song and dance deserves...
Hells bells, you still use the same old song and dance in your sad attempts at insult...
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
It means I can't believe some people are as stupid as they are. It's a facepalm.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Seems to me there is not only a difference, but a fine line, between stupid and stubborn.
For example, I do not think for a minute that Thief is stupid.
However, he is stubborn to the extreme.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I didn't know there were any of these "champions." Surely there are some that a few hold up on a pedestal, but the true-champions of non-believe are those who risked security, well-being, and reputation to speak their mind. The time when someone like Percy Shelley lived made him far more of a "champion" than any atheist author today.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Stubborn means you know that you're wrong, you just won't admit it. Stupid means you can't even figure out that you're wrong. Which side do you think he falls on?
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Except you have the same problem he does in this case...
You cannot prove you are right.
I have seen him admit he was wrong a couple times.
Now since you have no more evidence he is wrong as he has that he is right, I will have to go with he is being stubborn.
Yes, I give him a bunch of **** over his same old song and dance, but I have not made the claim that he is "stupid" for not changing it up.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
But I'm not proclaiming I'm right, only that my side is better supported. Rational people do not believe things for which there is no significant and objective evidence. He's claiming he's right yet cannot demonstrate it. I'm only pointing out that his position is irrational. I'm not even claiming to have a position of my own, only how absurd his position is.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You only believe in what you see.....?(even as you cover your eyes)
what are you doing among believers?
hoping they never bring that discussion for which you cannot deny?
I think it is irrational to not believe in Something Greater than yourself.
Billions of people all developing spirit.....and each one fails altogether?
Not one chance in billions that some of us will go on after the last breathe?
THAT would be irrational.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Fair enough.
Until you start saying he is wrong....
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
That's a convenient cop-out, isn't it?
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Because he cannot back up his claims rationally or with objective evidence. He cannot show that there is any reason to take his beliefs seriously.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
I agree.
But you would still be wrong to say he is wrong.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
You say he's absurd because he doesn't share your ideas. You seem to think there's nothing in this universe greater than you despite the billions upon billions of galaxies that are there? It depends on what your "deity" is too. I highly doubt that religion was made by humans just to control others. Do you really think that people wasted time building statues and temples and made prayers to deities that didn't exist? No, there's a force behind it, and the deities were said to have interacted with humans? Maybe there were on Earth but left a long time ago and that's why you don't see them roaming around, but they can still be contacted, via prayer.
We can't see germs with our eyes but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The mind is our "lens" so to speak to see and talk to our deities just like a lens is used to see germs. What cannot be explained can at least be experienced.
Instead you just flat out claim he's wrong, irrational and absurd and act as if there's nothing in all of reality that's bigger than you. I'd say that's quite rude as well as arrogant.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
An awful lot of assumptions in that there post...