Yes pretty much. Do you not think so?
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If you claim any sort of belief in the Bible--
- Thread starter YoursTrue
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think Jesus was born a Jew, and yes, he preached mainly to the Jews. After he died and was resurrected his disciples preached beyond the Jews about him. Thank you for your answer.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, so the soul can die, is that right?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
We, as human beings being born from Adam and Eve were not created in the same sense Adam & Eve were created. Do you agree with that?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's how I read it.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Me too.
Peace to all,
To me, Adam and Eve were created and became mortal and corrupt through choice, the fall of mankind, from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Intrinsic internal temptation becomes an internal part of the spirit through the flesh to the soul of their Body, their Being.
To me, Adam and Eve are the creation of the Body. Angels have a spirit and a soul. All Mankind, as Brothers and Sisters of The Christ, Jesus have a spirit in the soul through the flesh of the Body. The angels know of the coming power of the transfigured Body in Heaven. James, Peter and John witnessed The Transfiguration and were told not to talk about it until after Christ's Resurrection. The Word that became flesh redeems the Bodies, in the flesh of created Adam and Eve becoming through the incorruptible and immortal Body from Mary transformed through Her Son, Jesus. Adam and Eve were created and became mortal and corrupt through choice. The logic to me is We, through the Being of the Divine Will of God, become united as one in being together with the Father and the Son, transformed and glorified and transfigured becoming the image of The Creator, God.
To me the Logic is we are transformed sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being through Baptism and ready to be transfigured through Communion and Penance as confirmed and re-sanctified. From the sanctification of the Body from Baptism and the confirmed and re-sanctification through Communion and Penance in the spirit through the body to the soul of the Body we will become transfigured as united with all mankind into His Image.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
To me, Adam and Eve were created and became mortal and corrupt through choice, the fall of mankind, from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Intrinsic internal temptation becomes an internal part of the spirit through the flesh to the soul of their Body, their Being.
To me, Adam and Eve are the creation of the Body. Angels have a spirit and a soul. All Mankind, as Brothers and Sisters of The Christ, Jesus have a spirit in the soul through the flesh of the Body. The angels know of the coming power of the transfigured Body in Heaven. James, Peter and John witnessed The Transfiguration and were told not to talk about it until after Christ's Resurrection. The Word that became flesh redeems the Bodies, in the flesh of created Adam and Eve becoming through the incorruptible and immortal Body from Mary transformed through Her Son, Jesus. Adam and Eve were created and became mortal and corrupt through choice. The logic to me is We, through the Being of the Divine Will of God, become united as one in being together with the Father and the Son, transformed and glorified and transfigured becoming the image of The Creator, God.
To me the Logic is we are transformed sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being through Baptism and ready to be transfigured through Communion and Penance as confirmed and re-sanctified. From the sanctification of the Body from Baptism and the confirmed and re-sanctification through Communion and Penance in the spirit through the body to the soul of the Body we will become transfigured as united with all mankind into His Image.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
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I know this isn’t on-topic, but if you look at these Biblical verses about not touching the dead — like at Numbers 6:6, & Numbers 19:11 & others — it almost always says “soul” in Hebrew.
IOW, contrary to what almost everyone is taught, the Bible says the soul dies! And stays dead!
The concept of the soul being immortal, has its origins with Greek Philosophers like Plato. The idea is not found in, nor supported by, the Bible.
Sorry, @YoursTrue , I just had to put that in the thread!
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That's fine, @Hockeycowboy . Thanks for mentioning it. I looked up a few different translations, here they are about that verse Ezekiel 18:20:
New Living Translation
The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent’s sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child’s sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
English Standard Version
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Berean Standard Bible
The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him.
King James Bible
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
So the first one (New Living Translation) interestingly enough says "person," and the others cited say the SOUL that sins will die. A good honest study of the Bible helps clear this up. Yes, according to the holy scriptures, the soul that sins dies.
Which is everyone, because of our imperfection / sinful condition. Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No person can see God and live. Scriptures must be taken in context. There is no man that does not/has not sinned. Except Jesus, of course. Exodus 33:20 - The Almighty said to Moses, "But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live.”
I Am Hugh
Researcher
Yes. Pretty much. Though there was Jesus and the Phoenician woman, and the Roman soldier. (Matthew 15:23-25; 22: 1–14; Luke 7:1-9) There were Jewish proselytes (Exodus 12:48-49; Matthew 23:15; Acts 2:10) Moabite Ruth (Ruth 1:6) Rahab (Joshua 6:25) Edomite Doeg (1 Samuel 21:7) Hittite Uriah (2 Samuel 11:3, 11) and others. It wasn't until 36 CE when that changed, and the gentiles, uncircumcised, non-proselytes were welcomed. (Acts 10:1-2)
I Am Hugh
Researcher
You mean to say that it didn't mention Jesus by name. It did refer to a Messiah, no? Like David? Offspring of David? There were records in the temple, no? How many people that ever lived could have been that Messiah? After the temple was destroyed in 70 CE those records were no longer kept. No longer legally binding, correct?
I Am Hugh
Researcher
Who has seen God and what does it mean to see God 'face to face.?'
Did Abraham? Genesis 18:1-3 Note that Jehovah god is mistaken for one of the three men. Was God a man or an angel in the form of a man who represented God?
Did Moses? Numbers 12:8 - Note that it is an appearance of God that represents God to Moses.
Did Jacob? Genesis 32:30 - Note Hosea 12:2-4 points out that it was an angel who represented God that grappled with Jacob.
Did Manoah and his wife? Judges 13:2-22 - Note that the angel of Jehovah God is called Jehovah God.
Did Gideon? Judges 6:11-23 - Later Jehovah's angel came and sat under the big tree that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while Gideon his son was beating out wheat in the winepress so as to get it quickly out of the sight of Midian. Then Jehovah's angel appeared to him and said to him: "Jehovah is with you, you valiant, mighty one." At this Gideon said to him: "Excuse me, my lord, but if Jehovah is with us, then why has all this come upon us, and where are all his wonderful acts that our fathers related to us, saying, 'Was it not out of Egypt that Jehovah brought us up?' And now Jehovah has deserted us, and he gives us into the palm of Midian." Upon that Jehovah faced him and said: "Go in this power of yours, and you will certainly save Israel out of Midian's palm. Do I not send you?" In turn he said to him: "Excuse me, Jehovah. With what shall I save Israel? Look! My thousand is the least in Manasseh, and I am the smallest in my father's house." But Jehovah said to him: "Because I shall prove to be with you, and you will certainly strike down Midian as if one man."
At this he said to him: "If, now, I have found favor in your eyes, you must also perform a sign for me that you are the one speaking with me. Do not, please, move away from here until I come to you and I have brought out my gift and set it before you." Accordingly, he said: "I, for my part, shall keep sitting here until you return." And Gideon went in and proceeded to make ready a kid of the goats and an ephah of flour as unfermented cakes. The meat he put in the basket, and the broth he put in the cooking pot, after which he brought it out to him under the big tree and served it.
The angel of the [true] God now said to him: "Take the meat and the unfermented cakes and set them on the big rock there, and pour out the broth." At that he did so. Then Jehovah's angel thrust out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unfermented cakes, and fire began to ascend out of the rock and to consume the meat and the unfermented cakes. As for Jehovah's angel, he vanished from his sight. Consequently, Gideon realized that it was Jehovah's angel.
At once Gideon said: "Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah's angel face to face!" But Jehovah said to him: "Peace be yours. Do not fear. You will not die." So Gideon built an altar there to Jehovah, and it continues to be called Jehovah-shalom down to this day. It is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
No man has seen God but a few have seen representations of him. The angels are, in a sense, at least to the people they deal with, the same as God.
I Am Hugh
Researcher
Romans 6:7. Will some people not die, just before the new system?
I Am Hugh
Researcher
Isn't it a history of Israel? Israel means to wrestle, contend with, grapple with God. (Genesis 32:28) That's what we all do, isn't it?
Wallow in whatever eisegesis you wish, my scripture does not mention Jesus.
Peace to all,
To me, the logic is the people that will not die before He returns are His disciples from the cross.
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
Romans 6:7. Will some people not die, just before the new system?
To me, the logic is the people that will not die before He returns are His disciples from the cross.
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
I Am Hugh
Researcher
You have no answers. Only pride and ego. Ideology and religion.
"... my scripture does not mention Jesus" is an answer. You simply don't like it, and that is understandable.
Speaking of eisegesis, may I ask which bible you prefer?