If you claim any sort of belief in the Bible--

[Spice]

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." This does not match up to what Jesus, a devout Jew, believed, nor said. It's a an out for the lazy of spirit and weak of heart. Jesus taught The Way. By his life and death, for he endured to the end, he showed us The Way. He marked the path for us to follow and promised to send the Holy Spirit to walk with us along our journey on The Way. He did not eliminate our need to walk it ourselves!

 

[YoursTrue]

Really?

[If] the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 33:15


Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 26:5


When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
Psalms 109:7

Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
Psalms 109:16

Well, here's the question, the big one regarding obedience to God and his commandments -- why do we die?

 

[Ebionite]

Well, here's the question, the big one regarding obedience to God and his commandments -- why do we die?

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4

 

[FloorSalad]

Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.

Not to interrupt any ongoing conversations in the thread but to answer the original question: yes. I do.

 

[wellwisher]

Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.

In Roman 2:29 Paul explains about being a Jew after he converted to Christianity;

But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Being a Jew to Jesus and Paul, was not about the letter of the law, tradition and protocol, but rather a sincere expression of faith. It is more like the relationship of Abraham, than Isaac, than Jacob, and than Joseph and the twelve tribes, had with God before, the tribes were scattered. However, being a Jew became a secret handshake to be part of a social club, that was far from God, compared to the original founders.

This, pleasing in the sight of God, definition included the Gentiles who had a sincere heart. It was not about bloodline; external code beyond your control. it was more about a sincere inner attitude, that can be found in good people of all cultures, regardless of external rules. There are nice people in all cultures, as well as those who are not so nice. Circumcision of the heart applied to all the nice people sprinkled throughout all the nations. This is why Christianity was preach to all the nations, since their flock was scattered everywhere. Within this flock were the scattered eleven tribes, who also had been chosen at one time, via Jacob; his sons and grandsons. Joseph and the Jews were one of twelve tribes that also had the promise.

Paul was an example of someone who did it both ways. As Saul, he was arrogant and full of hate; shady lawyer. However, since he satisfied all external rules of being a Jew; bloodline, he was considered a Jew, regardless. His nasty behavior was not even taken into account, since he was Jew by the law, and nasty or not was not part of the external social rules. Paul realized what he had been doing was subpar to God and this title as a Jew; chosen race. After he converts, Paul finds the proper inner attitude toward people that was good in the sight of God. Then he becomes the inner Jew, that God had in mind, which could be found in all good people of all persuasions; scattered tribes.

Jesus preached in public areas where Jews and Gentiles mingled in the market place or in the work place; fishing. Jesus explained this to everyone who wished to listen. Doing away with law or commandment contained in ordinances, also did away with what divided the cultures; their own rules. Jesus did not just preach in the Synagogue, where he had a uniform Jewish audience. Rome also had spies to listen and keep an eye of Jesus. Many would go on to follow him, since he spoke to all who had that spirit and the circumcised heart.

 

[YoursTrue]

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4

So then we, as humans, are held by God accountable for our sins, is that right?

 

[Koberstein]

Thanks!

Your experience is similar to many in Catholicism…. They’re not taught to use the Bible, but rather just adhere to traditions & rites, all the while listening to stuff spoken in a language they don’t understand.

Religion — most of it anyway — is a racket, a way to fleece the pockets of people! And these poor people get nothing useful out of it!

It’s obvious why Jehovah’s gonna have it destroyed. - Rev.17&18

Religion is a racket. You want to balance the Federal budget? Revoke the tax exempt status to the prosperity 'plant a seed' preachers with their mega mansions, corporate jets and their Bentley cars. That low hanging fruit will be hard to pass up
Shalom

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Revoke the tax exempt status to the prosperity 'plant a seed' preachers with their mega mansions, corporate jets and their Bentley cars. That low hanging fruit will be hard to pass up

I tell ya what, you make a good point.

The thing is, Jesus told his disciples, “You received without paying; give without pay.” — Mathew 10:8

Yet what has Christendom done? They’ve fleeced their flocks!


All this doesn’t make the Bible wrong, only those who claim to support it.
And if those claiming to support it, really don’t follow it…why should other people have any respect for it?



(Re: fleecing flocks…I don’t know about the Jewish religious system; do they tithe? @YoursTrue , do you know / remember?)

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Did he not preach to gentiles while he was alive?

Yes, so says the bible.

Jesus was born a Jew and his words were for Jews only.

Jesus was a Jew who wanted to remind his people of their faith, so that they not continue to lose it to worldly pursuits.
Some Jews received this well; most Jews did not*.

Yet, then as now, the words of Jesus offered comfort and inspiration to anyone who did not want to lose themselves further in worldly pursuits.

*) Before someone reads something strange into that; imagine how the most corrupt of Christians of today would react to a fellow Christian trying to make them see that they have lost their Christian ways through corruption itself. Just saying.

 

[Koberstein]

I tell ya what, you make a good point.

The thing is, Jesus told his disciples, “You received without paying; give without pay.” — Mathew 10:8

Yet what has Christendom done? They’ve fleeced their flocks!


All this doesn’t make the Bible wrong, only those who claim to support it.
And if those claiming to support it, really don’t follow it…why should other people have any respect for it?



(Re: fleecing flocks…I don’t know about the Jewish religious system; do they tithe? @YoursTrue , do you know / remember?)

Tithing went away after the 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. There was no Levitical priesthood to support anymore. Animal sacrifice also went away. There are no offering plates being passed in a Jewish church or synagogue. However, there are.collection boxes at the rear of the church or synagogue to give to the poor.
Shalom
Shalom

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yet, then as now, the words of Jesus offered comfort and inspiration to anyone who did not want to lose themselves further in worldly pursuits.

It is better to face harsh reality of the world than to feel superior because of a false belief. The meek will never inherit the world.

 

[Colt]

Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.

Yes, a cultural Jew. 99.9999% of his own Jewish culture/community/religion rejected his “good news” Gospel or “personal religion”. So a compromised version of his religion was preached to the Gentile world. The efforts produced a religion ABOUT Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

I tell ya what, you make a good point.

The thing is, Jesus told his disciples, “You received without paying; give without pay.” — Mathew 10:8

Yet what has Christendom done? They’ve fleeced their flocks!


All this doesn’t make the Bible wrong, only those who claim to support it.
And if those claiming to support it, really don’t follow it…why should other people have any respect for it?



(Re: fleecing flocks…I don’t know about the Jewish religious system; do they tithe? @YoursTrue , do you know / remember?)

No, there was no tithing or passing of the plate. Although there was an annual membership drive when I went with my family. Here's what I do remember, though. Before my husband and I began studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, we wanted to go to the synagogue on what is called the "high holy days," meaning Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur. That would be the Jewish New Year and Day of Atonement. So we walked to the local synagogue and were told that in order to come in we would have to pay because there were so many attending but we could go in a room in the back. In fact, now that I remember it, no one greeted us any time we tried going to any house of worship except for the Witnesses. We did not attend a synagogue ever again after that, and it was about two years later that the Witnesses came to our apartment, My husband invited them. I argued with the wife but she said a few things that prompted me to learn more about the Bible with them. So we began to study the Bible with the Witnesses and are both thankful we did so.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Tithing went away after the 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. There was no Levitical priesthood to support anymore. Animal sacrifice also went away. There are no offering plates being passed in a Jewish church or synagogue. However, there are.collection boxes at the rear of the church or synagogue to give to the poor.
Shalom
Shalom

Peace to you too, my cousin.

 

[Ebionite]

So then we, as humans, are held by God accountable for our sins, is that right?

Humans are a special case, they are accountable for the sins of the state as well (to some degree).

 

[Koberstein]

Humans are a special case, they are accountable for the sins of the state as well (to some degree).

Sounds like a humanist reply. There is no state. Humanity has sinned against the Supreme Moral Governor of the universe.

 

[Ebionite]

Sounds like a humanist reply. There is no state. Humanity has sinned against the Supreme Moral Governor of the universe.

I'm not a humanist. Humans are nothing without the state. The language of humanism originated with Cicero, who made a distinction between the "civilised" humans of Rome and "subhuman barbarians". The Latin word for men or people is homo, the word humani was apparently coined by Cicero.

 

[Koberstein]

I'm not a humanist. Humans are nothing without the state. The language of humanism originated with Cicero, who made a distinction between the "civilised" humans of Rome and "subhuman barbarians". The Latin word for men or people is homo, the word humani was apparently coined by Cicero.

Wow what drugs are you on? Humans are nothing without their supreme creator Adonai and Yeshua Hamashiach.
Shalom

 

[Ebionite]

Wow what drugs are you on? Humans are nothing without their supreme creator Adonai and Yeshua Hamashiach.
Shalom

You're conflating human beings with people. Humans have human rights, people have natural rights.

From Ballentine's Law Dictionary 1930 'Human Being' is defined as follows: 'See monster' .

From the same dictionary, 'monster' is defined:
a human-being by birth, but in some part resembling a lower animal. “A monster…hath
no inheritable blood, and cannot be heir to any land, albeit brought forth in marriage;

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me, the logic in The Bible is a reference book and the inspired Word of God.

We are Created "in" Mortality and corruption and sanctified in the Body as Baptized "through" the Arc of the New Covenant becoming immortal and incorruptible "to" the Body of God and reconfirmed in Penance and Communion re-sanctified becoming gloriously transfigured into the Image of the Creator, God, The Father through death and resurrection and in all of the wondrous mysteries of The Faith of Abraham in God's promise to him. And to Isaac, God swore by His own name eternal life of The Body and to all of his descendants and 2000 years later fulfilled resurrection life of the Body to all with His Son, The Christ in us united through the Power of the Divine Spirit as one in being together with the Father and the Son, Glorified.

To me, the logic of eternal life of the Body is Fulfilled in the Living Sacrifice that The Authorities know is required for absolution of sin. Resurrected is Eternal Life of the Body, in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Body. The Spirit in through the flesh of the soul of the being first becoming Baptized, sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of Body as transformed immortal and incorruptible in the New Body from the created mortal in corrupt flesh and spirits in the Bodies of Adam and Eve and second, becoming as confirmed, in Communion and Penance and re-sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Body, regenerated is the Body becoming in the confirmed spirit transfigured into the image of The Creator, God, The Father as united through the Will of The Spirit as one in being together with the Father and the Son, Glorified.

The logic is the "RI" real intelligence in the Divine Spirit Will that maintains infallibility, immortality, incorruptibility and glorification in the Body and is transfigured from mortality and corruption, the "AI" of the failed image in the spirit of the flesh of the failed Body, to eternity in fulfilled faith and morality.

What would God do in all cases of fulfilled Faith and Morality?
Reimaged in the Will of God, To me, in the logic of love, this infallible intelligence will share to all His Open Church together to open to all and make happy, pleasing to all a good natured spirit in all the fulfilled love and happiness, through kindness and respect in approval in all to share as one in being in His Passion.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew