It's not enough.
There are plenty of women in all societies who are abused, as you say.
How do you think she would answer if her husband asked her whether he was overbearing?
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If you have to choose between two types of women (rebellion vs obedience)
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
It's not enough.
There are plenty of women in all societies who are abused, as you say.
How do you think she would answer if her husband asked her whether he was overbearing?
Exactly. I gave up the right to have millions of women everywhere fall at my feet, and my wife gave up her ability to avoid bad jokes.
This is gonna sound even weirder than my first comment, but I just had a mental image of you and @Treks at the altar, consulting a small laptop as you got up to the part where you say 'I do...'
'Celebrant : Do you take this woman as your wife?'
'Quax : I'm just checking. I think I have the VLookup wrong, cos I keep getting N/A# in the results box. Damn. Can I say 'Yes', but have a cooling off period in case the Return on Investment takes a downturn? Chinese markets open in an hour...'
I know that's not even close to what you meant, but I thought I'd let you in on a little of the chaos operating between my ears...lol
illykitty
RF's pet cat
Hmm, I just thought of something... @Godobeyer , think about friendships you have.You don't order your friends around, you may ask for a favour and they have a choice to say yes or no. They don't obey you, they may say yes because they care about you and want to do something nice for you. They may say no because they're too busy or some other reason.
I feel my marriage is like that, we may ask to do something for the other person, my husband sometimes asks me to put on specific laundry, like his work clothes, and I'll do it because I care and it will help him. I might ask him to take out the garbage, and he will do it to help me. But I don't see this as demanding and obeying, it's asking and having a choice of saying yes or no. No one is above the other, we can refuse. We just don't most of the time, because we like helping each other.
Even though at the moment I do not work, my husband isn't above me. I do most of the house chores because I want to, not because I obey him... And he does some house chores too, he helped me clean this weekend, for example. And someday I want to work, so the house chores will be shared equally, it's fair.
When it comes to things like clothing, I dress like I want and he doesn't have a problem with it (he likes how I look), I'm probably not modest by your culture, but for here, I think I'm dressed normally... I think if a man was to stare at me and say rude things, my husband would think that man is a pig, he wouldn't think it's my fault, he would say it's the man's fault for not being able to control himself. I don't think it would be nice for women to behave that way either, if a "sexy" man passes by and women stare or say obscene things. All genders have to control impulses.
I don't go out alone but that's because I have a mental health problem, but when I get better and am able to go out, I will tell him where I am, so that he doesn't worry. If he goes somewhere without me, he tells me where he will be. But we often go to places together so this situation doesn't happen often. I don't go to clubs and bars, just because I don't like those places, and my husband feels the same way. But we trust each other, so I know nothing will happen if he goes to a Christmas dinner with work colleagues (mostly men but some are female). If I didn't trust him, I wouldn't have married him.
Now I hope you realise I'm not making assumptions about your culture, and in mine, there's a few men here might expect women to bear and raise children, do all the house chores and cook all by themselves while the husband works and doesn't help (I had an aunt with such a marriage, it was her choice). But my marriage isn't that way. It's more like a mixture of friendship, equal partnership and of course love. ^_^ That's how I prefer things to be, I'm not obedient nor rebellious. I'm equal to him and we both help each other out.
I feel my marriage is like that, we may ask to do something for the other person, my husband sometimes asks me to put on specific laundry, like his work clothes, and I'll do it because I care and it will help him. I might ask him to take out the garbage, and he will do it to help me. But I don't see this as demanding and obeying, it's asking and having a choice of saying yes or no. No one is above the other, we can refuse. We just don't most of the time, because we like helping each other.
Even though at the moment I do not work, my husband isn't above me. I do most of the house chores because I want to, not because I obey him... And he does some house chores too, he helped me clean this weekend, for example. And someday I want to work, so the house chores will be shared equally, it's fair.
When it comes to things like clothing, I dress like I want and he doesn't have a problem with it (he likes how I look), I'm probably not modest by your culture, but for here, I think I'm dressed normally... I think if a man was to stare at me and say rude things, my husband would think that man is a pig, he wouldn't think it's my fault, he would say it's the man's fault for not being able to control himself. I don't think it would be nice for women to behave that way either, if a "sexy" man passes by and women stare or say obscene things. All genders have to control impulses.
I don't go out alone but that's because I have a mental health problem, but when I get better and am able to go out, I will tell him where I am, so that he doesn't worry. If he goes somewhere without me, he tells me where he will be. But we often go to places together so this situation doesn't happen often. I don't go to clubs and bars, just because I don't like those places, and my husband feels the same way. But we trust each other, so I know nothing will happen if he goes to a Christmas dinner with work colleagues (mostly men but some are female). If I didn't trust him, I wouldn't have married him.
Now I hope you realise I'm not making assumptions about your culture, and in mine, there's a few men here might expect women to bear and raise children, do all the house chores and cook all by themselves while the husband works and doesn't help (I had an aunt with such a marriage, it was her choice). But my marriage isn't that way. It's more like a mixture of friendship, equal partnership and of course love. ^_^ That's how I prefer things to be, I'm not obedient nor rebellious. I'm equal to him and we both help each other out.
I mean by obedient wife , is good manage of her relation with husband and her duty in home .rebellious is the inverse .
husband is suppose more than a friend in degree of relation .because he is partner of life and the mariage is big duty to both and reponsibilty (especialy when kids comes ).
btw for me , I will not agree that my wife contact her ex-boyfriend for exemple .
of course the husband or son should help his wife and mother if they need help in managing house .
my consern is for lazy women and unresponsible woman
that's different between our cultures .
and we respect our religion .
God give you health and wellness
it's seems that you are good ideal couple .
that's different views , i can critic the Western culture too .
indeed it's equal in treatement but in duties is different .
I can't be the pregnent one
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Hahaha it is a rather unromantic way of looking at it I agree.
Yes after many pages , you seems you don't understand me enough .
I explained what i meant by "rebel wife" .
of course i will ask my wife for everything , and i will do my best to please her .
of course i meant "boyfriends" , and if there is dirty friends , i will ask her to cut relation with them .
when i said "that natural and instinct " I don't mean i will harassement or rape her .
btw i am against harassement girl , even if they clothes "harassement/sexy " clothes
thanks for this notice
you find me thinking to creat new thread about harassement in West , and way of dresse , and if your girlfriend/wife contacts to her ex-boyfriends
I hope my view is clear to you now .
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
So what is it you want us to say?
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Yes, you've used the same exact words over and over. And even though almost every man who's responded to you has explained why they are inappropriate to their opinions of their wives and girlfriends, you continue to use them. So who doesn't understand whom? I don't think I've mischaracterized you at all. I just think you don't really appreciate my interpretation of who you are, despite the fact that I gathered the information for this interpretation from you. I don't think you like that I've determined you to be overbearing and controlling. I can't blame you, no one would wan't to be considered overbearing and controlling. You want me to change my opinion of you because it's just how men are in your culture. And I'm telling you that men in your culture should be better than what you say they are.
In a normal, healthy relationship, some of the former friends fall away because it's pretty normal for you not to like all of each other's friends. But in an overbearing and controlling relationship, one partner thinks it is perfectly reasonable to "ask" the other one not to see certain friends because he disapproves. That's the difference.
I certainly hope not. Because men who harass women are pigs who prey on members of his society who are considered subordinate to him and thus have less personal power.
Well good, I'm happy about that. Now if we could just get you to take the next step into realizing that a woman deserves the respect of all the men in your culture no matter what she's wearing your culture would be on the path to true equality between the genders. You might even get there before the west does! Wouldn't that be something!
I never said there wasn't harassment of women in all cultures, but you might have missed certain references due to language barrier or been more determined to try and convince me that any person's clothing choices can reasonably considered an assault on anyone else.thanks for this notice
Go ahead, I'm sure you'll learn much about it.
It has been, and it continues to be.
because it's could be harm our relation .
btw i mean by "order" is importand request than demand .
like "Don't open the door to strange people " .
demand is like if she prepare a lunch , i ask her to prepare for me ,my farvorite food .
maybe you misunderstand my definition about rebellious and obedient wife , check #85
there all kinds of relation in world , even husband obey his wife .because he love her to death .
so this matter run with the personality of couple .
indeed she had her demands , so i will do my best to please her .so helping we other or support we each other , or please we each other , and love and respect we other, that the main goal of marriage .
since in my culture (i most of cases) the duty of women are work in their house , and men goes out to work , so types of demands , are absolutly different .
Yeah, not for me. For a few reasons:
my husband and I have had a partnership for 15 years now, marriage for 12 years, open marriage for 9 years, sexually open for 3 years. And every year that passes has found us stronger than before because we honor and respect all that evolves and adapts in the relationship as we change as individuals. We define our boundaries, together AND individually. We define our own fidelity. We decide how our house is managed. We both work and invest our money...lots of moving parts and how ridiculous it would be to arbitrarily assign broad roles to specific facets of marriage/family/home life. We tried that **** once because of the culture he was brought up in....what a waste of time and stomach acid. No thanks.
My husband and I both consider ourselves rebellious against arbitrary tradition. We think tradition for traditions sake is stupid, so both of us adore people who blaze their own trails. Husband tells everybody that it wasn't my outstanding cooking or nice curves or beautiful smile or my intelligence that had him fall in love with me....it was my confidence and that i don't mince words and that I "tell it like it is."
His biggest turn off is the obedient wife. He prefers an independent woman with a mind of her own, who can take care of herself, and is someone who challenges him regularly.
my husband and I have had a partnership for 15 years now, marriage for 12 years, open marriage for 9 years, sexually open for 3 years. And every year that passes has found us stronger than before because we honor and respect all that evolves and adapts in the relationship as we change as individuals. We define our boundaries, together AND individually. We define our own fidelity. We decide how our house is managed. We both work and invest our money...lots of moving parts and how ridiculous it would be to arbitrarily assign broad roles to specific facets of marriage/family/home life. We tried that **** once because of the culture he was brought up in....what a waste of time and stomach acid. No thanks.
My husband and I both consider ourselves rebellious against arbitrary tradition. We think tradition for traditions sake is stupid, so both of us adore people who blaze their own trails. Husband tells everybody that it wasn't my outstanding cooking or nice curves or beautiful smile or my intelligence that had him fall in love with me....it was my confidence and that i don't mince words and that I "tell it like it is."
His biggest turn off is the obedient wife. He prefers an independent woman with a mind of her own, who can take care of herself, and is someone who challenges him regularly.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
I've always felt "tradition" was rather a subjective term. Tradition is largely unique to the individual. Basic example: when the hubs and I married we had to decide which christmas tradition we were going to follow. In my family, one gift was opened christmas eve with the remainder christmas day and only a few gifts were from Santa (usually too big to wrap stuff) with bulk from family, and the big meal was eaten on christmas day. The tree went up shortly after Thanksgiving and came down New Years Day. In my husband's family, the tree didn't go up til a day or two before christmas, the meal was eating christmas eve, and presents appeared in the middle of the night while everyone was at midnight mass, and all the gifts were from Santa. Our daughter was born the day after New Year's Day, necessitating that we forge our own tradition rather than adopt one from our past. So, in our family, the tree goes up the day after Thanksgiving and presents go under it immediately because I get a twisted pleasure from torturing my pets
D). One gift is opened christmas eve, we eat the meal on christmas day, and on 12/26 we're busting our humps getting all signs of christmas out of the house so we can do the kid's birthday. My family never cared, but the hubs' family always has something critical to say about it. But the point is, no two people are 100% alike so I think it's idiotic to have strict gender defined roles. I happen to be an awesome cook so I do the cooking in my family, and I happen to be a bit anal about the house so I do the bulk of the cleaning. But I have female friends who can't cook to save their lives and don't clean, so their husband's generally take those roles. Who the hell cares? Unless you have some sort of need to be "head of the household", you aren't missing any privileges but playing to your strengths and allowing your spouse to do the same.
Wirey
Fartist
No, never.
Wirey
Fartist
Woo-hoo!
it's not about gender , it's about divided duties .
in way i remember a video clip may could contient two kind of girl (obedient and rebellious ) in relation .this may explain better my point in this thread
warning This music video contiant adult scenes :
Justin Timberlake - What Goes Around
scroll to 3:29 .
obedient cause of love .
scroll to 5:54 to 6:55
"cheater" and rebellious
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
From what you have described, duties are divided according to gender. Here financial situations of often dictate that both partners work for a living, but, at the same time, there are many "stay at home dads" who take care of the house and kids while the mom goes off to work. Here a woman can take care of the house, go to work, or do both. Here a man can take care of the house, go to work, or do both. Ideally, they both would help take care of the house and kids, women should not face restrictions against working, and men should be allowed to do the stay at home thing if that will work for the couple and their finances permit it.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
This statement of yours:
is directly refuted by this statement of yours:
is directly refuted by this statement of yours:
in our society we divide the duty in general in gender, so excuse me i miss undertand Kirran post .
so you may know now, how we divide the duties .
just curious why you did not comment on #217