If you have to choose between two types of women (rebellion vs obedience)

[dawny0826]

Hello all


I am just want to know your opinion about if you want to marry a woman , your have just two choices ,

1- the first one : is very obedience , and calm , sensitive ( obedience )

2 -second one is rebellion , reject your requests ,she had strong personality than you ,(rebellion )


+ bonus questions : what is your type you prefer to marry ( i mean the caracteres of your futur woman in mental not body) ?

My husband is perfect for me because he accepts me as I am and loves me for who I am.

I'm a mixed bag of attributes. The underlying notion that there would be something wrong with a woman who is stronger willed than a man is sickening and drips of male insecurity and patriarchal bull.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Let me answer your question from MY perspective, because you are flat wrong to assume that all western couples would be okay with your scenario. In MY marriage, my husband would be fine with it. My husband's best friend is an old army buddy who happens to be a woman, and I would be fine with him meeting up with her for a few drinks or even dinner. No, neither of us assume that only sex can come from friendly relations with the opposite sex, that's rather juvenile in my opinion, and suggests that we posses no control over our own actions. If you're worried that a woman might cheat on you once you're married, DONT MARRY HER. That's my advice.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Marisa]

do you mean our women are pets !!!

I don't know gif they are or not. But YOU expect your wife to be a decoration in your life. And considering that you expect her to live by your objections to her desires but have no intention of returning that gesture than you certainly intend to treat her as though she were your pet. You certainly don't intend to treat your wife as your equal.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"Sexy" is subjective. If my husband were the jealous type, he would not be my husband. He'd be somebody else's husband and thus their problem.

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can for you: NOBODY tells me what to do with my body. Not even my husband. If there is no trust between me and my husband, we are headed for divorce court and I'll be marrying @Wirey tomorrow.

Oh my God. Wirey? He's your fallback? He's not even Australian...

 

[Godobeyer]

Is the obedience of that wive you mean obedience to [all/every] [order/demand/opinion] of the husband?

Is the rebellion of that wive you mean rebellion to [all/every] [order/demand/opinion] of the husband?

I admire this kind of question

1- obedience is all orders in serious issues and demands that's depend in it's importance.


2- rebellion of all orders and demands .

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Your definition's of obedient and rebellious probably account for some of the answers you are getting, mate. Let me answer again, but use your definition this time, to give you some more clarity on what I think. Worth remembering, though, that having only 2 answers means a lot of the nuance is lost.

obedient : which care about her husband , and take care of him and his house and his kids , and do his normal requests , and informe him about her movements (for example If she want to go out to visit her family , she inform him) , she respect and value that he goes out to work and suffered for make her live better life .

I would consider my wife strong-willed to the point of obstinate at times. But she cares about me, takes care of me, is an awesome mother, lets me know where she is going (at least generally), and respects how hard I work most of the time, whilst reserving the right to occasionally act irrationally and yell at me for not putting the bin out even though I'm interstate on business (the last is kinda a joke).

In terms of 'doing my normal requests' that is where it's important to get to the details of the thing. If I asked her to pick up my drycleaning, for example, she would (unless she had a very good reason not to). But I am asking her. It's entirely her choice, and that is important. It is not obediance I am after, but mutual respect.

In the same vein, everything I have said about her applies to me. If she rang up and asked me to do something, I would do it, unless it was simply impossible. So she is nor more obedient to me than I am to her.

rebellious : opposite which above , and plus rebellious woman for me , is once which had no problem to cheat on or seduce others , or disrespect her husband , and argue for everything " trouble maker" , which the marriage for her is worth ZERO ,i mean the couple relation for her is like , log in , log out .

If the marriage is worth zero, has no problem cheating or seducing others, and she isn't committed to the marriage, I wouldn't call that 'rebellious'. Again, I think the main issue with your poll is that it seems to put a lot of value on whether a woman 'listens' to a man, and does what she is told. That is why so many are voting for rebellious (and why I did). I don't want my wife to do what she is told. I want to have to convince her about things. I want her to convince me about things. I want a partnership, and someone I can both respect as an equal, and trust within the bounds of our marriage. Lucky me, I got it!

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, this may have already been asked, but are you - or would you be - an obedient husband or a rebellious husband?

I will be normal husband , listening husband , which may close to obedient than rebellious .

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't know gif they are or not. But YOU expect your wife to be a decoration in your life. And considering that you expect her to live by your objections to her desires but have no intention of returning that gesture than you certainly intend to treat her as though she were your pet. You certainly don't intend to treat your wife as your equal.

You need to know that our understanding to marriage and way of living are different

So what is normal in your home , is could be abnormal here , and inverse .

the treatment need to be equal , in certian manner .by our way of living NOT your way of living .

 

[Godobeyer]

Your definition's of obedient and rebellious probably account for some of the answers you are getting, mate. Let me answer again, but use your definition this time, to give you some more clarity on what I think. Worth remembering, though, that having only 2 answers means a lot of the nuance is lost.



I would consider my wife strong-willed to the point of obstinate at times. But she cares about me, takes care of me, is an awesome mother, lets me know where she is going (at least generally), and respects how hard I work most of the time, whilst reserving the right to occasionally act irrationally and yell at me for not putting the bin out even though I'm interstate on business (the last is kinda a joke).

In terms of 'doing my normal requests' that is where it's important to get to the details of the thing. If I asked her to pick up my drycleaning, for example, she would (unless she had a very good reason not to). But I am asking her. It's entirely her choice, and that is important. It is not obediance I am after, but mutual respect.

In the same vein, everything I have said about her applies to me. If she rang up and asked me to do something, I would do it, unless it was simply impossible. So she is nor more obedient to me than I am to her.



If the marriage is worth zero, has no problem cheating or seducing others, and she isn't committed to the marriage, I wouldn't call that 'rebellious'. Again, I think the main issue with your poll is that it seems to put a lot of value on whether a woman 'listens' to a man, and does what she is told. That is why so many are voting for rebellious (and why I did). I don't want my wife to do what she is told. I want to have to convince her about things. I want her to convince me about things. I want a partnership, and someone I can both respect as an equal, and trust within the bounds of our marriage. Lucky me, I got it!

what is wrong of my two defintions , in view of Western life ?

because that definition could be taking a way of life here about marriage .

please considere our different culture and society and way of life .

 

[Politesse]

You need to know that our understanding to marriage and way of living are different

So what is normal in your home , is could be abnormal here , and inverse .

the treatment need to be equal , in certian manner .by our way of living NOT your way of living .

Entirely true. So why are you making general judgement about how everyone should understand marriage and women?

 

[Marisa]

You need to know that our understanding to marriage and way of living are different

I completely understand it's different, I even understand where the differences are. It is with that understanding that I am telling you what I think. I think you'll be an overbearing husband in a culture where men are expected to be overbearing husbands and that you'll never consider that overbearing isn't the best way to be a husband. I think you'll demand things of your wife that she won't be allowed to demand from you and that this is completely acceptable in your culture, and that you will never consider that demanding what you aren't willing to give is unhealthy.

So what is normal in your home , is could be abnormal here , and inverse .

What is normal in my home would be unacceptable to you.

the treatment need to be equal , in certian manner .by our way of living NOT your way of living .

The treatment isn't equal, though, because you expect to be able to tell your spouse where she can and cannot go, with whom she can and cannot establish or maintain friendships, and what clothing she can and cannot wear because you think women's clothing is what makes men in your culture harass women, rather than the cultural expectation that men in your culture should control their juvenile sexual impulses regardless of what a woman is wearing.

 

[Godobeyer]

Entirely true. So why are you making general judgement about how everyone should understand marriage and women?

just to know , how the Western deal with this two kind of women .

and how they deal with some issue concerning, like misrespect, way of clothes , ex-boyfriend ...etc .

 

[lewisnotmiller]

what is wrong of my two defintions , in view of Western life ?

because that definition could be taking a way of life here about marriage .

please considere our different culture and society and way of life .

Well...to be honest, I wasn't trying to say anything was wrong with your definitions. I was just trying to explain how most Westerners would read them (in terms of meaning).

There are plenty in the West who would still hold to a similar view to yours, I guess. Also, it was much more common in my grandparents time, in particular pre-WW2. To be honest, I think you'd get more interesting answers if you looked at particular aspects of marriage (jealousy is a good example) and ask people about those in terms of relationships. 'Obedient' and 'rebellious' are such loaded terms that most will get an instinctual reaction to them, regardless of your actual intent.

Slaves and dogs are obedient.

I've lived in an extremely patriarchal society, where polygamy was common, and where women weren't allow to walk in front of a man (but a man could walk in front of a woman). I didn't like it. At all. Not saying your society is like that, since I have no first-hand experience. But I have 2 daughters, and I want them to be able to make whatever decisions they want about life, which could include anything from being a 'homemaker' to being Prime Minister of the country. Had I a son, I'd want the same.

 

[Marisa]

what is wrong of my two defintions , in view of Western life ?

because that definition could be taking a way of life here about marriage .

please considere our different culture and society and way of life .

Please understand that what most people here are telling you is that there is no cultural reason why oppression or sexual harassment of women should be deemed acceptable. It doesn't matter that it happens to varying degrees in almost every cultural on the planet, that simply does not make it correct. The men in your culture should be striving to make women safe from their unwanted sexual attention whether they work inside or outside the home, whether they have friends of the opposite sex or not, whether they are sitting in a bar or at the bus stop, and no matter what they are wearing. Nothing else is acceptable.

 

[Godobeyer]

I completely understand it's different, I even understand where the differences are. It is with that understanding that I am telling you what I think. I think you'll be an overbearing husband in a culture where men are expected to be overbearing husbands and that you'll never consider that overbearing isn't the best way to be a husband. I think you'll demand things of your wife that she won't be allowed to demand from you and that this is completely acceptable in your culture, and that you will never consider that demanding what you aren't willing to give is unhealthy.

abusing women is everywhere , When i get married i will ask my wife about if i am overbearing .

YOU think things close to prejudging .

What is normal in my home would be unacceptable to you.

as visiting your ex-friends ? for sure i will divorce her for that .

The treatment isn't equal, though, because you expect to be able to tell your spouse where she can and cannot go, with whom she can and cannot establish or maintain friendships, and what clothing she can and cannot wear because you think women's clothing is what makes men in your culture harass women, rather than the cultural expectation that men in your culture should control their juvenile sexual impulses regardless of what a woman is wearing.

your culture nudity the woman , and my culture ask her to cover her body ?

your culture make from the women as trade .
Is there harassement in West against women ?

 

[Marisa]

abusing women is everywhere , When i get married i will ask my wife about if i am overbearing .

YOU think things close to prejudging .

No I don't. I've been talking to you for how many pages now? All day long for sure. I think it's interesting that you would ask your wife if you're being overbearing, in a culture where she isn't allowed to "rebel". That seems pretty pointless to me, why ask her a question that she's not allowed to given an honest answer to because of your expectations of her? Why would you bother with her opinion anyway, when you've already said her opinions won't change your behavior or expectations of her?

as visiting your ex-friends ? for sure i will divorce her for that .

Do you really mean friends here? Or do you mean boyfriends, or ex romantic partners? Because if you really do just mean friends then you've got issues with trust that go way beyond your wife's obedience to your demands. If you really just mean friends then let me give you a piece of friendly advice: never marry, because with your trust issues your wife will never be able to behave according to your demands. Some guy will bump into her on the sidewalk and you will accuse her of cheating on you.

your culture nudity the woman , and my culture ask her to cover her body ?

your culture make from the women as trade .
Is there harassement in West against women ?

You completely misunderstood what I said about nudity. What I said is that a grown man controls his sexual urges. I didn't say you don't have them. I said CONTROL THEM. And that control comes from you, pal, not from a woman. If you have yourself under control, then a naked woman can sit down next to you and though you might be aroused, you can maintain a civil conversation and not assume she is offering herself to you.

Yes, there is harassment against women in the west. Do refer yourself back to where I said that it's unacceptable. Why don't you ask these nice gentlemen here if they think it's okay to harass a women because of the way she's dressed?

 

[Parsimony]

indeed if the woman wear sexy (nudity closes , or tight or visible ) that considere harassement against men .

How is this harassment? You might as well be saying that doughnut shops harass people who are on diets.

you can't defeat natural (instinct) .

A person may not be able to control how they feel, but they most certainly can control how they behave.

 

[Pudding]

I admire this kind of question

Thanks.

1- obedience is all orders in serious issues and demands that's depend in it's importance.

Why the wife have to be obedience in all orders in serious issues?

Base on which rules/knowledge/book do we know which issues is serious issues or not?

Base on which rules/knowledge/book do we know which decision is the right/correct/perfect decisions for that serious issues?

----------------------------

Base on which rules/knowledge/book do we know which demands is important demands or not?

Do important demands can be automatically consider to be a right/correct/perfect decisions?

Base on which rules/knowledge/book do we know which decision is the right/correct/perfect decisions for that important demands?

2- rebellion of all orders and demands .

I think it's fair for the wife to be rebellion if her husband treat her like in the scenario below.

Husband: I order/demand you to do this, i order/demand you to do that, [what i say] or [opinion according to what some authority say] is absolute truth, you must obey me.

What will the wife say?

Maybe she'll say that: Let us divorce. I don't know why i even marry you in the first place.

Or will the wife say "I'll always obey all of your order/demand, because [what you say] or [opinion according to what some authority say] will always be the absolute truth" ?

 

[Pudding]

I will be normal husband , listening husband , which may close to obedient than rebellious .

Can the wife also be a normal wife?

What is the universal standard for a wife/husband to be a universal normal wife/husband?
This universal standard is base on what rules/knowledge/book?
Is that rules/knowledge/book an universal rules/knowledge/book?

Does universal normal wife/husband exist?
Does universal standard/rules/knowledge/book exist?
Does universal standard/rules/knowledge/book can be automatically consider to be right/correct/perfect/good/best ?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

just to know , how the Western deal with this two kind of women .

1- obedience is all orders in serious issues and demands that's depend in it's importance.

You do not give orders to equals. You make requests and work together to see if you can as a team make it happen. This may mean you have to give something up as well.

2- rebellion of all orders and demands .

See above.

and how they deal with some issue concerning, like misrespect, way of clothes , ex-boyfriend ...etc .

Dump her, divorce her. I certainly would not presume to limit her rights.

Relationships are subject to a cost benefit analysis.

If the costs of the relationship outweigh the benefits then you end the relationship. Easy as that.