Ignorance on the Left hand path and magic. Avoiding the type of people that commit sick things.

[Sutekh]

The Ophite Cultus Sathanas (Our Lady of Endor) was not a Satanic cult, nor can it be considered a Western Left Hand Path . . . it was steeped in Gnosticism and the belief in the Christian-Judaic cosmology.

Exactly[emoji1319][emoji1319]

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Not at all . . . Hinduism is not related to Satanism or the Western Left Hand Path, simply because the goals of Hinduism both and Vamachara and Dakshinachara are completely different than that of the WLHP

Of course they are related.


Hinduism-blavatsky-the likes of crowley-the likes of lavey-the internet.

All causally related. Lady B brought a rather westernized (MIS)interpretation to which others carried on. Crowley and lavey got it though, they were very LHP(antinomian/heterodox) in the way they lived and in what they produced and displayed in light of their eras.

The problem began online I would say, when people began to mistake the form for the substance.

 

[EtuMalku]

Of course they are related.


Hinduism-blavatsky-the likes of crowley-the likes of lavey-the internet.

All causally related. Lady B brought a rather westernized (MIS)interpretation to which others carried on. Crowley and lavey got it though, they were very LHP(antinomian/heterodox) in the way they lived and in what they produced and displayed in light of their eras.

The problem began online I would say, when people began to mistake the form for the substance.

Madman Blavatsky totally screwed up the tenets behind Eastern LHP, blew it with Luciferianism, and didn't know her *** from her elbow about the Western LHP
Crowley was brilliant but remained on the RHP and it is only with LaVey that the Western LHP begins.

Heretical/Unorthodox Hinduism ultimately shares the same goal as Orthodox Hinduism . . . Union with the Absolute

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

How did lavey begin the 'Western' LHP?

He carried on a rightly LHP tradition, but he didn't add much new material.

 

[EtuMalku]

How did lavey begin the 'Western' LHP?

He carried on a rightly LHP tradition, but he didn't add much new material.

Simply in that before LaVey there was no WLHP

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Well, lavey certainly never made such a distinction. Neither did anyone else, by my reconning, before a couple weeks ago on this forum. You sure THIS isn't the 'birthplace of the wlhp'?(lol, that acronym sounds like some PC gay rights group or something)

 

[EtuMalku]

Well, lavey certainly never made such a distinction. Neither did anyone else, by my reconning, before a couple weeks ago on this forum. You sure THIS isn't the 'birthplace of the wlhp'?(lol, that acronym sounds like some PC gay rights group or something)

LaVey for the first time synthesizes Antinomianism with a coherent focus of the independence of the individual. Both paramount tenets of the Western LHP

 

[Sutekh]

Crowley was brilliant but remained on the RHP.

Speaking of Crowley I wanted to show an interesting video by the sect of the horned god, the music is very well played. The video is also quite saddening to watch the pictures and the brilliant quotes by him.

 

[Kapalika]

Gah I'm going to need to make a topic on this soon...

Not at all . . . Hinduism is not related to Satanism or the Western Left Hand Path, simply because the goals of Hinduism both and Vamachara and Dakshinachara are completely different than that of the WLHP

Heretical/Unorthodox Hinduism ultimately shares the same goal as Orthodox Hinduism . . . Union with the Absolute

I don't think it's really your place to preach at me about what my religion is. I spoke of this in another topic but your conceptualization of the eastern left hand path is misinformed:

Firstly, the LHP idea of individualization towards the point of deification is not unique. My own religion has been doing this for over 1,000 years and is Left Hand Path.

I think the confusion is coming from trying to apply the idea of the LHP to orthodox schools like Samkhya . But LHP is heterodox, and nothing about the nonduality implies that the mind is totally destroyed. In Kashmir Shaivism your mind is regenerated into the universal consciousness as a discrete but united personality along with all other enlightened folk.

...

A couple of branches of Kashmir Shaivism actually have the heart/mind as the vessel towards this nondual unity (it's not monisitic but it isn't dual, being beyond even the monisitic-dual duality) and sees nothing as impure or pure but by perception. I would think this is closer to what maybe some of you conceptualize the Left Hand Path as. Anyways as Frank said Brahman isn't a hive mind. In at least what I practice, you are still you and your higher self, your atman as it's called in Vendanta and some other schools... was really a god all along. The main difference is that these schools of thought don't subscribe to the dualism of being separated. Again as @Saint Frankenstein said you can't really separate yourself from the Cosmos because it defines all that exists... and in these philosophies god/brahman/self is identified with all of existence. And you can't really separate yourself from yourself.

And if Satanism and this "western left hand path" has nothing to do with the left hand path that has existed for over 1,000 years I would implore you to question why you are even using the term then.

Because you basically force the logical conclusion that Satanism and the "western left hand path" isn't really left hand path if you take that position. It then just becomes a very badly misappropriated term. It becomes devoid of any meaning.

edit: Just realized I was quoting myself from another part of the forum o.0 Forgot that topic got moved.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

LaVey for the first time synthesizes Antinomianism with a coherent focus of the independence of the individual. Both paramount tenets of the Western LHP

Only that stuff has been part and parcel to the LHP for many centuries before laveys great grandpappy was born. Nothing new there.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I challenge anyone that feels up to it to distinguish, meaningfully, this 'Western' LHP from the thousands of year old original that maintains the the core characteristics of the original in a way that makes 'LHP' a correct descriptor of said path.

So far, after all of this, all I see is wishful thinking and a weird attachment to a term that doesn't seem to offer any sort of useful descripion of the subject matter.

 

[EtuMalku]

Only that stuff has been part and parcel to the LHP for many centuries before laveys great grandpappy was born. Nothing new there.

Oh really? Where?

 

[Kapalika]

LaVey for the first time synthesizes Antinomianism with a coherent focus of the independence of the individual. Both paramount tenets of the Western LHP

Oh really? Where?

Refer to some of the ancient LHP Shaivite sects I have referenced in this topic and the other I quoted myself from. Kapalika and Kula for example. Kula is pretty individualistic.

You can likewise find very, very similar views in the Nirvana concept of Vajrayana, which was largely influenced by and influenced Kashmir Shaivism. In those Buddhist sects the individual was seen as a distinct yet united face on an infinitely large nondual diamond. Attaining Nirvana didn't destroy the person, but made them fully God. Many of these enlightened individuals forsook escaping rebirth and became Bodhisattvas and so became demigods. There are entire pantheons of these beings and many other humans who became gods in Tantra.

Just as many sects of Kashmir Shaivism, it was a reconciliation of monism and dualism. The deified individual is both themselves and yet all at the same time. Even in more dualistic tantric shaivite schools one becomes a distinct but equal Shiva. Similar to how many theistic Satanists want to become a god equal to Satan.

The "antinomianism" was actually practiced by Indian religions long before Satanism did anything with it: (emphasis added)

Among some Buddhist groups there are types of 'antinomianism' which may act as a gloss for 'left-handed attainment' (Sanskrit: Vamachara): naturalist/spontaneous antinomianism, ritualist/philosophical antinomianism, and empirical antinomianism.There may also be those who subscribe to all or some combination of these three types. Not all Buddhist schools accept antinomian thought as skillful.

Naturalist antinomians believe that enlightened beings may spontaneously break monastic codes of conduct while living out a natural state of enlightened mind. Another view is that an enlightened mind responds to circumstances based on Buddhist morality, rather than the legalism of the monastic codes, and that the "break" is not therefore spontaneous. There are tales of Buddhists who perform acts that appear to be bizarre or immoral, sometimes referred to as 'crazy wisdom' (Tibetan: yeshe chölwa). The movement of the Nyönpa in Seventeenth Century Tibet has strong associations with antinomian behavior as well.

Ritualist antinomians, such as some Tantric Buddhists, may practice which seemingly may appear to be breaking the codes of conduct in specific religious rituals designed to teach non-duality or other philosophical concepts.

Empirical antinomians may break or disregard traditional ethical or moral rules that they believe are unconducive to the individual's contemplative life. They view such codification as having arisen in specific historical-cultural contexts and, as such, not always supportive of Buddhist training. Thus the individual and the community must test and verify which rules promote or hinder enlightenment.

Not even hard to look up this stuff lol.

 

[Kapalika]

I should re-emphasize that the citta (or mind/personality) is not destroyed in these tantric sects. So it is actually close to what you talk about with self diefication. the idea of the self being destroyed in moksha (liberation) is more of a feature of samskya and arguably Vendanta.

In either case... it's not that in Saivagama:

Both in Samkhya-Yoga and Vedanta, the citta or mind reverts to its causal matrix, the Prakrti at the time of liberation. Patanjala yoga has a special word for this reversion, viz; pratiprasava which means reabsorption, remergence (into Prakrti). The defiling buddhi or citta has to withdraw into its primal cause. It is only then that Purusa can shine in his pristine, inherent glory. The citta can never be allowed to enter the sacred precincts of Purusa. It is an alien and has to be repatriated to its original home.

Saivagama which is undiluted advaita (non-dualism) has, however, a word of cheer even for the poor citta. According to it, the citta of the self-realized person becomes regenerated, transformed, transfigured into Cit (the Universal Divine Consciousness). Sutra 13 of Pratyabhijnahrdayam announces the reassuring tidings of its higher destiny in unmistakable terms:

[couldn't copy over Sanskrit]

On the realization of the five-fold act of the Self citta (the individual consciousness), by inward movement becomes citi (universal consciousness) by rising to the status of cetana (the knowing subject).

The following lucid commentary of Ksemaraja on this sutra deserves to be carefully pondered over:

[couldn't copy Sanskrit]

"The citta giving up the limiting tendency of extroversion, becoming introverted, rises to the status of cetana i.e. to the status of the knowing subject, when by the dissolution of the aspect of limitation and attaining its real nature, it becomes citi. That is to say, it now enters its highest stage of cit."

Essentially, the citta becomes the cit; the personality becomes the god.

Not too different from what you term "western left hand path", eh?

 

[crossfire]

Refer to some of the ancient LHP Shaivite sects I have referenced in this topic and the other I quoted myself from. Kapalika and Kula for example. Kula is pretty individualistic.

You can likewise find very, very similar views in the Nirvana concept of Vajrayana, which was largely influenced by and influenced Kashmir Shaivism. In those Buddhist sects the individual was seen as a distinct yet united face on an infinitely large nondual diamond. Attaining Nirvana didn't destroy the person, but made them fully God. Many of these enlightened individuals forsook escaping rebirth and became Bodhisattvas and so became demigods. There are entire pantheons of these beings and many other humans who became gods in Tantra.

Just as many sects of Kashmir Shaivism, it was a reconciliation of monism and dualism. The deified individual is both themselves and yet all at the same time. Even in more dualistic tantric shaivite schools one becomes a distinct but equal Shiva. Similar to how many theistic Satanists want to become a god equal to Satan.

The "antinomianism" was actually practiced by Indian religions long before Satanism did anything with it: (emphasis added)
wiki quote: <...>

Empirical antinomians may break or disregard traditional ethical or moral rules that they believe are unconducive to the individual's contemplative life. They view such codification as having arisen in specific historical-cultural contexts and, as such, not always supportive of Buddhist training. Thus the individual and the community must test and verify which rules promote or hinder enlightenment.[51]
​

Empirical antinomianism is basically what Buddha described as the Middle Path. The historical-cultural codifications that are not conducive to individual enlightenment are referred to as Māra. (For instance, Buddha saw no benefit in eating human flesh as a practice, so rejected it, but did find benefit in meditating over decomposing corpses, so endorsed that. Likewise, Buddha did find benefit in some of the RHP meditative practices, like Mindfulness Immersed in the body, so endorsed it, but did not find benefit in the practice of animal sacrifice, so rejected it.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Shh, @Mandi. They want to think they're special and original. Certainly no brown person could have ever thought of these things before them.

 

[crossfire]

Shh, @Mandi. They want to think they're special and original. Certainly no brown person could have ever thought of these things before them.

**rolls eyes**

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

**rolls eyes**

That's nice.

 

[Kapalika]

Empirical antinomianism is basically what Buddha described as the Middle Path. The historical-cultural codifications that are not conducive to individual enlightenment are referred to as Māra. (For instance, Buddha saw no benefit in eating human flesh as a practice, so rejected it, but did find benefit in meditating over decomposing corpses, so endorsed that. Likewise, Buddha did find benefit in some of the RHP meditative practices, like Mindfulness Immersed in the body, so endorsed it, but did not find benefit in the practice of animal sacrifice, so rejected it.)

Which Buddha? (more asking to see if you know)

Everyone is the Buddha, there is no one "Buddha. Just as everyone is Shiva and there is no one Shiva. Just as everyone is Satan and there is no one Satan.

Call it an archetype, call it a higher self, call it God. It's all the same. Just because one Buddha described certain things one way doesn't mean it isn't another way; it's different for everyone, and that's part of why the Left Hand Path is so individualistic.

I've known of a lot of Buddhism that eats human flesh as well as within my own religion. Perhaps some "western left hand path" can't stomach that lol

 

[crossfire]

Which Buddha? (more asking to see if you know)

Siddhartha Gautama

Everyone is the Buddha, there is no one "Buddha. Just as everyone is Shiva and there is no one Shiva. Just as everyone is Satan and there is no one Satan.

Just because Buddha Gautama was self-awakened and was able to teach others to awaken (the definition of a Buddha) does not mean that other individuals will not be able to achieve this.

Call it an archetype, call it a higher self, call it God. It's all the same. Just because one Buddha described certain things one way doesn't mean it isn't another way; it's different for everyone, and that's part of why the Left Hand Path is so individualistic.

Indeed, everyone has their own individual hang-ups they must overcome.

I've known of a lot of Buddhism that eats human flesh as well as within my own religion. Perhaps some "western left hand path" can't stomach that lol

What benefit to awakening does this practice provide?