Ignorance on the Left hand path and magic. Avoiding the type of people that commit sick things.

[1137]

Ah!! That's an E not an R . . . got it
In any case, and I don't want to speak for SSE but, his stance is that what we term the WLHP has really nothing to do with what is termed the LHP (by the East), that it is a completely different animal and should be named as such.
I agree . . .

Lol apparently I am WAY more tired than I thought!

 

[Sutekh]

Lol apparently I am WAY more tired than I thought!

I feel the same way, you wouldn't want to know what it was like for me yesterday. I had to do history with my dad, and my dad was forcing me to watch twilight till 12 am in the morning. I know this is off subject but I felt like replying back lol.

 

[Adramelek]

You believe you have your way of doing things. Just as I would not speak out against those methods, I would not speak out against those who prefer a more direct or physical approach when confronting and engaging their enemies.

You believe you speak for all Satanists, then? All Satanists, of all forms of Satanism?

In extreme circumstances I have and would defend myself and loved ones physically. Of course I can't speak for all Satanists, as always I only speak for myself. I personally see no benefit or justification in engaging in acts of murder, rape, plunder, etc., why do these things? What logical purpose does it serve?

 

[Aštra’el]

Of course I can't speak for all Satanists, as always I only speak for myself. I personally see no benefit or justification in engaging in acts of murder, rape, plunder, etc., why do these things? What logical purpose does it serve?

Some would experience and explore the malicious, malevolent side of their own human Nature, or humanity's collective human Nature. Some even attribute profound spiritual-religious value to doing so.

 

[Kapalika]

The type of stuff that you would normally hear in the media about Satanists and black magicians committing human sacrificing, those are not true satanists or true black magicians they are simply devil worshipers or attention seekers either way. I consider myself a law abiding citizen, in Satanism we do not of course label magic black or white, "magic is magic." What has always made me frustrated about the general public is their ignorance among the left hand path and that of satanism, they believe everything of what the media may tell them and they do not do their research on satanism of what it truly is. I have always distanced myself from the media and those horrific sacrificing's that is going on occasionally.

If you did some quick research you would know that the black market for albino body parts has nothing to do with either Satanism or the Left Hand Path. It has more to do with native beliefs about albinos being magical beings who's body parts can be used for magic. So it's a totally different cultural context and religion.

Also there is basically no proof of satanic human sacrifice ever really happening, at least as practiced by someone with a sincere conviction. I'm not aware of any devil worshippers doing this either but all devil worshippers are Satanists even if not all Satanists are devil worshippers.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Also there is basically no proof of satanic human sacrifice ever really happening, at least as practiced by someone with a sincere conviction. I'm not aware of any devil worshippers doing this either but all devil worshippers are Satanists even if not all Satanists are devil worshippers.

There's just examples of psychotic Satanists who pop up every once in a while, like them: http://www.lifedeathprizes.com/real-life-crime/couples-kill-daniel-and-manuela-ruda-6637

Pretty much all groups have their deranged types.

 

[crossfire]

Some would experience and explore the malicious, malevolent side of their own human Nature, or humanity's collective human Nature. Some even attribute profound spiritual-religious value to doing so.

How would this compare to those in the past who have advocated witch hunts and violence as a holy service? Would you consider those as LHP?

 

[Kapalika]

This thread isn't edgy enough (I say that light-hardheartedly). Let's talk about the ancient Kapalika sect. They were real, historical Left Hand Path Tantra dating back at least 1,400 years. They were known for the kapala (skull cap used as a bowl) and covering themselves in human ashes. There were also a lot of reports of cannibalism and human sacrifice which I don't really doubt happened as at least cannibalism is still practiced in Hindu and Buddhist Left Hand Path. Anyways their kapalas were often from Brahmins they murdered (causing them to be exiled).

(Actually my current avatar with kali has a kapala in her bottom left hand there, collecting the blood from the severed demon head.)

This was pretty legit LHP and is some of the most ancient examples of real Left Hand Path. Very extreme mind you, but still very LHP. A lot of Left Hand Path Shavites might call them bad practitioners who pervert certain ideas (as sacrifice should be symbolic and non-violence practiced) but really both are still Left Hand Path. But from them the Kula developed from what I understand so they couldn't of been totally bad.

Edit: Kapalika shouldn't be confused with the Aghori who also have kapalas and cover themselves in human ashes and sometimes practice cannibalism. But the Agohri's kapala is attained from dead/buried Sadhus along holy rivers. And from what I understand they are supposed to be nonviolent as ascetics although of course not everyone is good at following the tradition correctly. Also I don't think there are really much if any Kapalika around, but there are plenty of Aghori around.

Anyways my greater point is that this kind of thing is Left Hand Path, and was for centuries before Satanism or anything resembling most modern LHP religions ever existed. The violent parts may of not meshed well or agreed with non-violent Left Hand Path traditions but both fell within the umbrella.

 

[Kapalika]

Actually I think Aghori developed from Kapalika too... anyways as I said, "sick things" have historically went hand in hand with the Left Hand Path. It might not have been violent, but it was "sick" to many people and still is today. I personally don't see any issue with cannibalism or human ashes or the like, really I'm okay with anything that isn't violent or illegal where it's done. And I kind of feel like Satanism has actually white-washed the Left Hand Path in many ways.

Anywho's I know that these statements might not be a popular one, so if anyone wants to duke it out I would suggest we agree to start a debate topic instead of derailing this thread.

 

[Aštra’el]

How would this compare to those in the past who have advocated witch hunts and violence as a holy service? Would you consider those as LHP?

To kill for one's god(s), perform human sacrifice, or cull others in the name of religion... these things do not make one RHP or LHP. There have been RHPers and LHPers who have performed these acts, and there have been RHPers and LHPers who have abstained from them.

 

[crossfire]

To kill for one's god(s), perform human sacrifice, or cull others in the name of religion... these things do not make one RHP or LHP. There have been RHPers and LHPers who have performed these acts, and there have been RHPers and LHPers who have abstained from them.

Then would it be fair to say that this is a different thing from RHP & LHP altogether?

 

[Aštra’el]

Then would it be fair to say that this is a different thing from RHP & LHP altogether?

I would say that behavior such as killing for one's god(s), engaging in human sacrifice, and culling in the name of religion, is exclusive to neither RHP or LHP.

 

[Sutekh]

If you did some quick research you would know that the black market for albino body parts has nothing to do with either Satanism or the Left Hand Path. It has more to do with native beliefs about albinos being magical beings who's body parts can be used for magic. So it's a totally different cultural context and religion.

Also there is basically no proof of satanic human sacrifice ever really happening, at least as practiced by someone with a sincere conviction. I'm not aware of any devil worshippers doing this either but all devil worshippers are Satanists even if not all Satanists are devil worshippers.

I wasn't necessarily implying Satanism in that cateogry of albino parts being sold in the black market, what I was trying to imply is the ignorance among some people who would add Satanism among that category. My dad for example tends to be one of these people who tend to follow up on the media and would put satanism among the category of black magic etc. However black magic and Satanism tend to be separate, Satanists do not for example label magic as black nor white.

 

[Sutekh]

Also there is basically no proof of satanic human sacrifice ever really happening, at least as practiced by someone with a sincere conviction. I'm not aware of any devil worshippers doing this either but all devil worshippers are Satanists even if not all Satanists are devil worshippers.

I also do know that their is not even a single proof as you said on satanic and human sacrificing, when I would normally hear human sacrificing going on the news whether be it labeled Satanic I would personally not view to be in any connection with true legit Satanism. Also a Satanist isn't a devil worshiper if you have done research, LaVeys philosophy or religion as you may call it, as a matter of fact is not even a devil worshiping religion. As a matter of fact most Satanists tend to be atheists. Yes, their can be some sects of satanism be it theistic or traditional Satanism, but in my own viewpoint I would not consider it to be Satanism. Instead I would classify it in a different aspect. We might have some disagreements but I just felt like explaining it to you.

 

[Sutekh]

And I kind of feel like Satanism has actually white-washed the Left Hand Path in many ways.

Anywho's I know that these statements might not be a popular one, so if anyone wants to duke it out I would suggest we agree to start a debate topic instead of derailing this thread.

By the way Satanism has never white washed the Left Hand Path. In Satanism we have the belief in self deification and seeking a non union with the universe, and our beliefs or philosophy is among the antinomian path we also indulge and break away taboos among the mainstream society, we indulge in carnality, and among other things. We also tend to enjoy the here and now. You may have a different perspective but I am just saying.

 

[1137]

Some want to please authority.

Some want to disgust authority.

Some just want to Be and Become.

 

[Kapalika]

I wasn't necessarily implying Satanism in that cateogry of albino parts being sold in the black market, what I was trying to imply is the ignorance among some people who would add Satanism among that category.

My bad.

Also a Satanist isn't a devil worshiper if you have done research, LaVeys philosophy or religion as you may call it, as a matter of fact is not even a devil worshiping religion. As a matter of fact most Satanists tend to be atheists. Yes, their can be some sects of satanism be it theistic or traditional Satanism, but in my own viewpoint I would not consider it to be Satanism. Instead I would classify it in a different aspect. We might have some disagreements but I just felt like explaining it to you.

I actually know a lot about Satanism and theistic Satanists were around before LaVey in groups such as the Our Lady of Endor coven. I think it's very silly to say that the people who actually believe in Satan are not Satanists particularly when they existed before the atheistic interpretation based on archetypes. Also LaVey's philosophy is mostly Objectivism (large part of why I think it's wrong; being hard right politically).

This is why I said that not all Satanists are devil worshippers but all devil worshippers are Satanists. But even theistic Satanists tend to not like the term devil worshippers since their relationship with Satan is more egalitarian than groveling.

By the way Satanism has never white washed the Left Hand Path. In Satanism we have the belief in self deification and seeking a non union with the universe, and our beliefs or philosophy is among the antinomian path we also indulge and break away taboos among the mainstream society, we indulge in carnality, and among other things. We also tend to enjoy the here and now. You may have a different perspective but I am just saying.

That view of non union is not universal, nor is the self deification. However you are right in that I have a different perspective; I'm not a dualist. Really I have no issue or conflict with the self being in union with the Universe because the Universe and all that there is is Satan and becoming Satan (in my religion) infinitely multiples yourself, it doesn't destroy it. You don't loose your memories or self. As far as breaking taboos it's not for the sake of it itself but a means to an end. What is taboo for others is tradition for us.

Satan, Shiva, whatever it is, it's all the same thing. For some it might even be Jesus. In the end it's the same chaotic, cosmic principle that births reality. I just happen to have a heavy Shiavite and Satanic bent and even as a Satanist my beliefs are and always were the same, just more refined under the Hindu philosophy I came across. I was mostly on point, but mystics in centuries past did all the heavy lifting of figuring it out so I don't have to.

Some just want to Be and Become.

In my religion this is Saivagama. Becoming God/Shiva.

 

[Sutekh]

My bad.



I actually know a lot about Satanism and theistic Satanists were around before LaVey in groups such as the Our Lady of Endor coven. I think it's very silly to say that the people who actually believe in Satan are not Satanists particularly when they existed before the atheistic interpretation based on archetypes. Also LaVey's philosophy is mostly Objectivism (large part of why I think it's wrong; being hard right politically).

This is why I said that not all Satanists are devil worshippers but all devil worshippers are Satanists. But even theistic Satanists tend to not like the term devil worshippers since their relationship with Satan is more egalitarian .

I've always had a curiosity with our lady of endor coven especially its founder. What is sad is that the organization is primarily dead. The belief systems of the coven are actually strange but interesting. That would be cool if it still existed. I was always wandering if LaVey knew sloanne or corresponded back to him. In some websites such as Angel fire he does correspond to LaVey. I used to be curious on where he was buried at, or if his house still exists?

 

[EtuMalku]

My bad.



I actually know a lot about Satanism and theistic Satanists were around before LaVey in groups such as the Our Lady of Endor coven. I think it's very silly to say that the people who actually believe in Satan are not Satanists particularly when they existed before the atheistic interpretation based on archetypes. Also LaVey's philosophy is mostly Objectivism (large part of why I think it's wrong; being hard right politically).

This is why I said that not all Satanists are devil worshippers but all devil worshippers are Satanists. But even theistic Satanists tend to not like the term devil worshippers since their relationship with Satan is more egalitarian than groveling.



That view of non union is not universal, nor is the self deification. However you are right in that I have a different perspective; I'm not a dualist. Really I have no issue or conflict with the self being in union with the Universe because the Universe and all that there is is Satan and becoming Satan (in my religion) infinitely multiples yourself, it doesn't destroy it. You don't loose your memories or self. As far as breaking taboos it's not for the sake of it itself but a means to an end. What is taboo for others is tradition for us.

Satan, Shiva, whatever it is, it's all the same thing. For some it might even be Jesus. In the end it's the same chaotic, cosmic principle that births reality. I just happen to have a heavy Shiavite and Satanic bent and even as a Satanist my beliefs are and always were the same, just more refined under the Hindu philosophy I came across. I was mostly on point, but mystics in centuries past did all the heavy lifting of figuring it out so I don't have to.



In my religion this is Saivagama. Becoming God/Shiva.

Not at all . . . Hinduism is not related to Satanism or the Western Left Hand Path, simply because the goals of Hinduism both and Vamachara and Dakshinachara are completely different than that of the WLHP

 

[EtuMalku]

I've always had a curiosity with our lady of endor coven especially its founder. What is sad is that the organization is primarily dead. The belief systems of the coven are actually strange but interesting. That would be cool if it still existed. I was always wandering if LaVey knew sloanne or corresponded back to him. In some websites such as Angel fire he does correspond to LaVey. I used to be curious on where he was buried at, or if his house still exists?

The Ophite Cultus Sathanas (Our Lady of Endor) was not a Satanic cult, nor can it be considered a Western Left Hand Path . . . it was steeped in Gnosticism and the belief in the Christian-Judaic cosmology.