-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
I'm against abortion myself, but....
- Thread starter rheff78
- Start date
- Status
Well, I think so too, only my "black" isn't your "black."
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Yeah, my black is a much lighter shade than his, I think.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Nope, they aren't. I'm not discussing the morality of it either. I was saying that everything is relative. You can say they are pro-choice in your estimation, but it's far from an objective truth. To you, they fit into that category, to themselves they don't necessarily. I do think they fit into categories. For instance, they could be put into the "I would never have an abortion myself, and don't like it when anyone else does, and don't think that anyone should be allowed to have one, at least not after 3 months, but I'm not in their position, so who am I to judge?" category. If you water that down to be pro-choice, in your opinion, then that's fine, but that's your opinion, not a fact. And that category is neither black nor white.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Arbitrarily saying that something is one way or the other just because that is the way you view it doesn't make it so. Period. You can say it all you want...doesn't make it true.
What you are dealing with is a stance...a belief, and like other stances and beliefs it is a personal thing. You cannot put everyone into your nice little personal descriptions of categories and have them actually apply without any disagreeance.
I could come out and say that if you are pro-choice you are pro-women's rights and if you are pro-life you are anti-women's rights and that you believe that women are mere cattle and should have no say in anything about their bodies period. That they are just living to be breeders and should shut up and accept their "god given role". You can say that isn't so, but "it's black and white" there is "no gray area" to this. I am right and it doesn't matter how you really feel or how you categorize yourself...you are wrong. Is that fine with you?
What you are dealing with is a stance...a belief, and like other stances and beliefs it is a personal thing. You cannot put everyone into your nice little personal descriptions of categories and have them actually apply without any disagreeance.
I could come out and say that if you are pro-choice you are pro-women's rights and if you are pro-life you are anti-women's rights and that you believe that women are mere cattle and should have no say in anything about their bodies period. That they are just living to be breeders and should shut up and accept their "god given role". You can say that isn't so, but "it's black and white" there is "no gray area" to this. I am right and it doesn't matter how you really feel or how you categorize yourself...you are wrong. Is that fine with you?
rheff78
I'm your huckleberry.
How is that catergory not black or white to you? I guess we have to put it in anther way. If you are Pro-Life, we believe we are defending the rights of something that cannot make a choice on it's own. Who are you to judge? you're the person standing up for the rights of someone who can't speak for themself. That's who you are. It's not about the woman, it's about the child. So, if you are not opposed to speaking up for the child, then you are Pro-Choice.
You're just digging a deeper hole.
Now, who is making it about morality rather than simple categorization?
Draka
Wonder Woman
And yet you ignore that some of us realize that some people don't have the same definitions of "life" as we do. As to when life begins or if they have the same priorities. As I've said numerous times, yet you completely pass over, there are those people who will disagree with abortion, yet say they will not oppose someone's personal decision to have an abortion within a certain amount of time. After a certain point in the pregnancy we find that it is inconceivable not to recognize that there is life there and that abortions should not be performed. How are we not "speaking up for the child"? Because there is gray area for some people at the early embryonic stages we will grudgingly accept that, BUT we do have our limits.
Willamena is right...you are just digging yourself a deeper hole.
McBell
Unbound
No, you are attempting to justify your opinion with an appeal to emotion ad hominem.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
And there are some that are convinced that we should try to have fewer abortions, but that moralizing about abortion, and condemning people (legally or religiously) doesn't reduce them at all, while it substantially increases the deaths and injuries to mothers and children from unregulated abortions.
My approach is to favor life by favoring choice. The two simply aren't mutually exclusive.
My approach is to favor life by favoring choice. The two simply aren't mutually exclusive.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Sure, superficially those people are pro-choice, but that's like me telling you that I'm a human. That doesn't take into account my race, gender, sexual preference, etc. My telling you I'm human only gives you part of the story, just like my telling you that I'm pro-choice (or pro-life) only gives you part of the story, and the other parts are necessary to most people, because they like to be accurate.
Alceste
Vagabond
Wow, did I ever get a different impression of this thread. I thought you had alienated all the "real pro-lifers" from your cause by relegating them to the "pro-choice" camp without listening to or trying to understand where they, personally, draw the line.
Whereas I (a life-long unrepentant pro-choicer) distinctly remember telling you I have no problem at all with your definition. Why would I? It puts nearly everybody on my side, and only a tiny handful of people who would kill their own wives to save their unborn children on your side.
C'mon over, pro-lifers who have been denied membership to rheff's exclusive "pro-life" movement, which so far seems to consist only of himself - there is plenty of room for everybody over here on the "pro-choice" side.
blackout
Violet.
This is exactly what has completely befuddled me about this thread.
If the "real" pro-lifers, relegate the "imposter" pro-lifers to the "pro-choice" camp
who on earth does this benefit? It makes me laugh.
If the "real" "pro-lifers" can do no better than allienate/de"mean" others
who would not personally choose abortion themselves (ie, personal "pro-lifers"),
how well do you think they're gunna do with those actually considering an abortion?
Don't individuals choose abortion after all?
Making enemies with those of like mind is not generally a good strategy.
The pro-choice camp is multiplying exponentially while we speak... lololol!
Alceste
Vagabond
This is exactly what has completely befuddled me about this thread.
If the "real" pro-lifers, relegate the "imposter" pro-lifers to the "pro-choice" camp
who on earth does this benefit? It makes me laugh.
If the "real" "pro-lifers" can do no better than allienate/de"mean" others
who would not personally choose abortion themselves (ie, personal "pro-lifers"),
how well do you think they're gunna do with those actually considering an abortion?
Don't individuals choose abortion after all?
Making enemies with those of like mind is not generally a good strategy.
The pro-choice camp is multiplying exponentially while we speak... lololol!
I expect the underlying hope was that people who identify as "pro-life" but would not want to threaten access to safe, legal abortions in certain cases (ie. risk of life for the mother) would be so attached to the label "pro-life" that they would be willing to shift their ethics to match rheff's in order to keep the label, rather than continue to be reasonable and let go of the label.
- Status