I'm against abortion myself, but....

[rheff78]

hmmm, no. In all actuality there was no choice. We knew the right way to handle things. We discussed what we would do and how we would handle it. If you're wondering, we DID go through this at one time.

 

[Magic Man]

As I already said, if the situation came up between me and my wife, WE have talked about it. She was involved in the situation.

So, why do the two of you think that the fetus's life is so much more important than your wife's?

 

[rheff78]

So, why do the two of you think that the fetus's life is so much more important than your wife's?

More important? No. Never had a chance to live, yes.

 

[Magic Man]

More important? No. Never had a chance to live, yes.

By choosing you unborn child over your wife, you are saying that that your child is more important than her.

If that baby was born, and your wife died in the process, and the baby ended up dying of complications before its first birthday, would you regret the decision?

 

[McBell]

hmmm, no. In all actuality there was no choice. We knew the right way to handle things. We discussed what we would do and how we would handle it. If you're wondering, we DID go through this at one time.

And then you CHOSE the right way over the wrong way.
So yes there was a choice.

You are being inconsistent.
If you discussed and decided (I.E. made choices) on how to handle it, you made choices.

and you have forgotten to address a few things:

So in your scenario (Mother or fetus) where you choose the fetus, then the Mother has no choice.
How is it that the Mother is not special then?

Seeing as you declared that the not having a choice is what makes the fetus special, if you remove said choice from the mother then by default the mother is the special one, right?

So your declaration is only about you and your wife?

​

 

[McBell]

there are certainly enough people out there willing to adopt

Then please be so kind as to explain why there are so many children in the system waiting to be adopted.

 

[budhabee]

By choosing you unborn child over your wife, you are saying that that your child is more important than her.

If that baby was born, and your wife died in the process, and the baby ended up dying of complications before its first birthday, would you regret the decision?

That's kinda a mean question. Its also pointless.

 

[rheff78]

By choosing you unborn child over your wife, you are saying that that your child is more important than her.

If that baby was born, and your wife died in the process, and the baby ended up dying of complications before its first birthday, would you regret the decision?

Not at all. If you had two children and were put in a situation where you could only save one, does that mean on is more important than the other?

You can't live that way. If you got married and the plane crashed on your honeymoon killing your wife, would you regret getting married and going on your honeymoon?

 

[Magic Man]

That's kinda a mean question. Its also pointless.

It might be considered mean to some, yes. It is by no means pointless, though. And in the current context, I don't see it being mean at all. The OP was trying to get people to admit to something that rheff thought they were trying to avoid admitting. I'm doing the same with him.

 

[rheff78]

And then you CHOSE the right way over the wrong way.
So yes there was a choice.

You are being inconsistent.
If you discussed and decided (I.E. made choices) on how to handle it, you made choices.


and you have forgotten to address a few things:

So in your scenario (Mother or fetus) where you choose the fetus, then the Mother has no choice.​

How is it that the Mother is not special then?​

Seeing as you declared that the not having a choice is what makes the fetus special, if you remove said choice from the mother then by default the mother is the special one, right?​

So your declaration is only about you and your wife?​

Where right and wrong is concerened is there really a choice?

 

[rheff78]

That's kinda a mean question. Its also pointless.

I appreciate the sentimate, but don't worry, I take no offense. I can't get offended by people that don't know any better.

 

[McBell]

Where right and wrong is concerened is there really a choice?

Are you serious?
Of course there is a choice.
Especially given the subjectivity of the terms "right" and "wrong."

Are you going to address the other points or not?

 

[Magic Man]

Not at all. If you had two children and were put in a situation where you could only save one, does that mean on is more important than the other?

You can't live that way. If you got married and the plane crashed on your honeymoon killing your wife, would you regret getting married and going on your honeymoon?

That example is not even close to the same. That's a freak accident. This is a conscious decision. Here, you know one of the two is going to die, and you have to choose which. If it is your two kids, and you pick one, then you are saying that one is more important, yes.

Why would you not choose the option of aborting this one child that would kill your wife, and trying again in a couple of years? Then, you could end up with another perfectly healthy child, and a perfectly healthy wife, instead of just a child.

 

[Draka]

If I was married to Rheff...I'd run for the hills and never look back.

You have effectively whittled down the value of a woman to a stock breeder. If she dies due to a terminatable pregnancy...so be it. It is only the woman's responsibility to bring new lives into this already over-populated, crime infested, disease infested world. How dare we think that our lives are important too?

You have already eaten your words once. Wanna keep trying for more? You have already said that abortion should not happen FOR ANY REASON and then said that naturally an abortion would be performed in certain situations. The thing is, in a high risk pregnancy, there are no gaurantees as to who may or may not survive. If a woman is severely anemic or diabetic, a pregnancy could most definitely not only kill her, but there is no gaurantee that the pregnancy would move far along enough for the fetus to be survivable either. There are simply situations out there that any person with common sense about them would agree are warranted and reasonable situations in which to have an abortion.

Here's another one: "Julie" has been in an abusive relationship for a while now, and try as she might to get away, she has neither the resources nor support system to safely make her getaway without risking serious injury or death. (Yes it happens and if you don't believe go ask some women who have been abused). She finds out that she has become pregnant. She knows if he finds out that something terrible will happen. She can't get away from him now, and if he continues to beat her up then she will most likely lose the baby anyway. If she were to have the baby then she is fearing that she will never be rid of him and will most likely die at his hands. She tearfully has an abortion. THIS HAPPENS.

Because of situations beyond our own perspectives in our lives I can realize that abortions may be the only viable option for some women. Because of that I would never favor making them illegal. I won't judge. I say that I could never see myself having an abortion...and I hope that remains true for me my entire life. I do know though, that I may fall into some horrific life scenario which may make me re-evaluate my stance. I'm open-minded enough to realize that.

You aren't...and I pity you for that.

 

[McBell]

All life is sacred.
it's just that some lives are more sacred than others.



To me, this is sarcasm.
to some this is an absolute truth

 

[rheff78]

Draka, thankfully small minded women like you are few in far between in the world. Don't pretend you know anything about me and my wife or our situation. I have not whittled down anyone to anything except in your limited scope. if you ran for the hills, I owuld run for the ocean to get away from you.

 

[rheff78]

That example is not even close to the same. That's a freak accident. This is a conscious decision. Here, you know one of the two is going to die, and you have to choose which. If it is your two kids, and you pick one, then you are saying that one is more important, yes.

Why would you not choose the option of aborting this one child that would kill your wife, and trying again in a couple of years? Then, you could end up with another perfectly healthy child, and a perfectly healthy wife, instead of just a child.

So what. It's still two family members. One is NEVER more important than the other.

 

[rheff78]

If I was married to Rheff...I'd run for the hills and never look back.

You have effectively whittled down the value of a woman to a stock breeder. If she dies due to a terminatable pregnancy...so be it. It is only the woman's responsibility to bring new lives into this already over-populated, crime infested, disease infested world. How dare we think that our lives are important too?

You have already eaten your words once. Wanna keep trying for more? You have already said that abortion should not happen FOR ANY REASON and then said that naturally an abortion would be performed in certain situations. The thing is, in a high risk pregnancy, there are no gaurantees as to who may or may not survive. If a woman is severely anemic or diabetic, a pregnancy could most definitely not only kill her, but there is no gaurantee that the pregnancy would move far along enough for the fetus to be survivable either. There are simply situations out there that any person with common sense about them would agree are warranted and reasonable situations in which to have an abortion.

Here's another one: "Julie" has been in an abusive relationship for a while now, and try as she might to get away, she has neither the resources nor support system to safely make her getaway without risking serious injury or death. (Yes it happens and if you don't believe go ask some women who have been abused). She finds out that she has become pregnant. She knows if he finds out that something terrible will happen. She can't get away from him now, and if he continues to beat her up then she will most likely lose the baby anyway. If she were to have the baby then she is fearing that she will never be rid of him and will most likely die at his hands. She tearfully has an abortion. THIS HAPPENS.

Because of situations beyond our own perspectives in our lives I can realize that abortions may be the only viable option for some women. Because of that I would never favor making them illegal. I won't judge. I say that I could never see myself having an abortion...and I hope that remains true for me my entire life. I do know though, that I may fall into some horrific life scenario which may make me re-evaluate my stance. I'm open-minded enough to realize that.

You aren't...and I pity you for that.

Then I pity you as well. For you cannot see that it's not the childs fault she became pregnant. You ahve whittled down a life into what is best for you and not anyone else. it's selfish.

 

[McBell]

Are you going to address the other points or not?

I guess not.

Interesting what that suggests....

 

[Draka]

Draka, thankfully small minded women like you are few in far between in the world. Don't pretend you know anything about me and my wife or our situation. I have not whittled down anyone to anything except in your limited scope. if you ran for the hills, I owuld run for the ocean to get away from you.

I'm small minded??? You're the one making blanket statements and trying to pidgeon-hole people under certain little labels as you feel fit to define them and I'M the small-minded one? Did you even read the rest of my post or did you just fling right into the insults? That's the sign of a great debater huh?...no valid argument?...just insult the one who stumped you. :sarcastic