I'm not baptized. Am i a Christian?

[sojourner]

It happens once.

The outward sign happens "once" in time. The inward grace is ongoing every moment of every day.

 

[Milton Platt]

No one really believes poured water is baptism. Water immersion pictures the death of the baptized one. A person can only be raised with Christ if he or she dies as Christ dies. Being rained on just means getting wet.

I'm an atheist, but read many of the other religious threads on the forum. I know this is a same faith thread, and I do not want to try and argue your actual faith, But if I may ask a question about something in your post???
In what way is being submerged in water for a few seconds "dying as Christ died"? My understanding is that he was murdered in a very gruesome manner. I don't understand the equation of taking a dunk to being nailed on a cross until dead.
If you do not want to answer within this forum thread, that's okay. It might derail the thread if everyone piles on and that isn't my wish. I was just wondering, that's all.
Again, pardon the intrusion. It just got me to wondering....

 

[sojourner]

I'm an atheist, but read many of the other religious threads on the forum. I know this is a same faith thread, and I do not want to try and argue your actual faith, But if I may ask a question about something in your post???
In what way is being submerged in water for a few seconds "dying as Christ died"? My understanding is that he was murdered in a very gruesome manner. I don't understand the equation of taking a dunk to being nailed on a cross until dead.
If you do not want to answer within this forum thread, that's okay. It might derail the thread if everyone piles on and that isn't my wish. I was just wondering, that's all.
Again, pardon the intrusion. It just got me to wondering....

It's a metaphor -- an image. "Being dunked in water" isn't the same thing as "being executed on a cross." But being immersed in water illustrates being buried in the earth.

 

[savagewind]

I'm an atheist, but read many of the other religious threads on the forum. I know this is a same faith thread, and I do not want to try and argue your actual faith, But if I may ask a question about something in your post???
In what way is being submerged in water for a few seconds "dying as Christ died"? My understanding is that he was murdered in a very gruesome manner. I don't understand the equation of taking a dunk to being nailed on a cross until dead.
If you do not want to answer within this forum thread, that's okay. It might derail the thread if everyone piles on and that isn't my wish. I was just wondering, that's all.
Again, pardon the intrusion. It just got me to wondering....

The son of Mary and Joseph died in a sense so that his will and God's will would not contest each other. I am one who does not believe the man Jesus was God in the flesh. He was a man. All men should have a will. His will was to do God's will and ours should be too imho. But he is different in that his body was prepared from the beginning. I believe his birth was a heavenly planned birth.

 

[sojourner]

The son of Mary and Joseph died in a sense so that his will and God's will would not contest each other. I am one who does not believe the man Jesus was God in the flesh. He was a man. All men should have a will. His will was to do God's will and ours should be too imho. But he is different in that his body was prepared from the beginning. I believe his birth was a heavenly planned birth.

So, Jesus didn't really die? Or do you mean something else?

 

[savagewind]

So, Jesus didn't really die? Or do you mean something else?

What words of mine did you use to conclude that? I believe he did die, but he is resurrected. I didn't say anything about his real death. I am talking about his birth, life and baptism and not his death.

 

[sojourner]

What words of mine did you use to conclude that? I believe he did die, but he is resurrected. I didn't say anything about his real death. I am talking about his birth, life and baptism and not his death.

"Jesus died in a sense." It's a little confusing.

 

[savagewind]

"Jesus died in a sense." It's a little confusing.

At his baptism, he let his will die so that he would let God's will shine in total. We do not have to do that, which is good.

 

[sojourner]

At his baptism, he let his will die so that he would let God's will shine in total. We do not have to do that, which is good.

Not sure I agree totally. Love always involves self-sacrifice. Or do you mean something other than that?

 

[savagewind]

Try writing something about yourself without a whole bunch of "I". I think Jesus sacrificed his I so that God's I would live.

 

[savagewind]

Not sure I agree totally. Love always involves self-sacrifice. Or do you mean something other than that?

I don't believe love always involves self-sacrifice. What about marriage?

 

[sojourner]

I don't believe love always involves self-sacrifice. What about marriage?

Wow! Really? Marriage involves a lot of self-sacrifice in the way of compromise, understanding, putting the other person before oneself. Paul tells us that love does not insist on its own way. That, right there, involves some self-sacrifice, yes?

 

[savagewind]

Wow! Really? Marriage involves a lot of self-sacrifice in the way of compromise, understanding, putting the other person before oneself. Paul tells us that love does not insist on its own way. That, right there, involves some self-sacrifice, yes?

I do not sacrifice myself for my marriage and he does not either. We compromise. I think I do more compromising, but I suppose he might think he does more. It doesn't matter. I do not call compromise sacrifice.

 

[savagewind]

Sacrifice is giving up something as in now it is gone. I didn't give up anything for my marriage and neither did he. What is gone? My virginity? LOL. No, not that. I have much more not less and he has more not less.

 

[savagewind]

Wow! Really? Marriage involves a lot of self-sacrifice ...... putting the other person before oneself. .

Self sacrifice is putting the other person instead of oneself. Putting the other person before oneself is order.

 

[sojourner]

I do not sacrifice myself for my marriage and he does not either. We compromise. I think I do more compromising, but I suppose he might think he does more. It doesn't matter. I do not call compromise sacrifice.

In what way is compromise not giving up or giving in?

 

[sojourner]

Self sacrifice is putting the other person instead of oneself. Putting the other person before oneself is order.

Not necessarily. This is a minuscule distinction. Both represent sacrifice, because they're both the same thing. There is no real distinction between "instead" and "before" in this context.

 

[sojourner]

Carl Jung says, "Every true and deep love is a sacrifice." Philip Newell asserts that "It is a giving of ourselves freely to something more than our ego. In love we offer ourselves to a oneness that is greater than our separateness." He goes on to say, "Instead of seeing Jesus' self-giving as a revelation, a lifting of the veil to show us the costliness of serving at love's altar in our lives and world, we represented the cross primarily as freeing us from having to make sacrifice. And we ended up creating the impression that we can ... enjoy oneness with each other ... without personal cost."

 

[savagewind]

In what way is compromise not giving up or giving in?

With compromise, I expect something back sometime. Sacrifice is accomplished with no expectations imo.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Even though I am a Christian minister (sponsored by an area church), and have a bit of formal schooling in the subject I am cautious to render my opinion especially when discussing salvation issues that are not fully resolved or agreed upon by religious scholars churches etc. So to all please take my words as my personal opinion and I urge you to do your own research before forming your own decision.

I believe that Baptism is not 100% necessary for salvation, at least not in the same manner or level of importance that that Grace is. Salvation according to the bible is arrived at by faith in Jesus and repentance of our sins. It seems that baptism would be ‘works’ even if they glorify Jesus Christ they remain works. Ephesians 2, verse 8 and 9. Even the ’go to’ verse that many quote to support mandatory baptism ie Mark 16:16 has textual problems, and with all due respect to those that support that passage imo it’s not a good idea to anchor a important doctrine on Mark 16:16. I think baptism is like an added enhancement to our Christianity. I hope I have not offended anyone by stating my opinion. Oh I almost forgot, I am baptized!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)