imagine...

[Danmac]

Why should it be? Why would god give us the ability to reason and then expect us to forgo its use?

We exercise faith all of the time. Why is it all of the sudden different when it concerns God? Faith is nothing more than gambling. Gambling is not lunacy, it is taking a chance hoping to land a greater prize. So it is with faith in God.

 

[Thief]

We exercise faith all of the time. Why is it all of the sudden different when it concerns God? Faith is nothing more than gambling. Gambling is not lunacy, it is taking a chance hoping to land a greater prize. So it is with faith in God.

Pascal's wager?

Still the universe is moving.

Nothing moves without cause.

The singularity went 'bang' for nothing?

 

[Danmac]

Pascal's wager?

Still the universe is moving.

Nothing moves without cause.

The singularity went 'bang' for nothing?

Science tests things all of the time, not knowing the outcome beforehand. Sorta like pascal's wager.

 

[Thief]

Science tests things all of the time, not knowing the outcome beforehand. Sorta like pascal's wager.

Just wrote this for another thread....


The word...'why'.... implies reasoning...an intellectual motivation.

Perhaps He did have something to think about.
But without a description of the 'void'....in words a human can understand...
it's not likely we can.

I suspect that's where most people falter on the idea that God ......
caused all things.

Everyone here at the forum...both sides of the fence lay on God....
their own necessities and assume the same of Him.

But that would make Him something less than God...would it not?

What science cannot do...is return to the singularity and be sure of it.

All motion is relative.
But a singularity has nothing to be relative to.

Equations don't work in such a void....no light....no form....

Still, we have the effect...all around us.

There is a Cause for it.

 

[Danmac]

Just wrote this for another thread....


The word...'why'.... implies reasoning...an intellectual motivation.

Perhaps He did have something to think about.
But without a description of the 'void'....in words a human can understand...
it's not likely we can.

I suspect that's where most people falter on the idea that God ......
caused all things.

Everyone here at the forum...both sides of the fence lay on God....
their own necessities and assume the same of Him.

But that would make Him something less than God...would it not?

What science cannot do...is return to the singularity and be sure of it.

All motion is relative.
But a singularity has nothing to be relative to.

Equations don't work in such a void....no light....no form....

Still, we have the effect...all around us.

There is a Cause for it.

The scientific law of causality demands a cause for all things. Even the big bang. But there were no natural laws in place before the big bang. So who or what caused it?

 

[tumbleweed41]

The scientific law of causality demands a cause for all things. Even the big bang. But there were no natural laws in place before the big bang. So who or what caused it?

You just answered your own question!
Causality is dependent on natural law.
No natural laws "before" the Big Bang implies causality is not necessary.

 

[Danmac]

You just answered your own question!
Causality is dependent on natural law.
No natural laws "before" the Big Bang implies causality is not necessary.

Science says causality is necessary. How do you account for this when there were no natural laws in effect before the big bang?

 

[Thief]

Science says causality is necessary. How do you account for this when there were no natural laws in effect before the big bang?

God......

 

[Danmac]

God......

Halleluh

 

[tumbleweed41]

The scientific law of causality demands a cause for all things. Even the big bang. But there were no natural laws in place before the big bang. So who or what caused it?

You just answered your own question!
Causality is dependent on natural law.
No natural laws "before" the Big Bang implies causality is not necessary.

Science says causality is necessary. How do you account for this when there were no natural laws in effect before the big bang?

Like I said.
No natural laws "before" the big bang. Physics cannot not delve into this "time" because the laws of physics, ie: causality, does not apply.
The first known cause is the rapid expansion of the singularity/universe, which brought about time and space.
To ask what caused that expansion, or why the singularity even exists, is beyond scientific knowledge, since how and why apply only to the physics model beyond the first planck time.
We can say that God was the cause, however, it cannot be shown that a cause is even necessary.

 

[Danmac]

Like I said.
No natural laws "before" the big bang. Physics cannot not delve into this "time" because the laws of physics, ie: causality, does not apply.
The first known cause is the rapid expansion of the singularity/universe, which brought about time and space.
To ask what caused that expansion, or why the singularity even exists, is beyond scientific knowledge, since how and why apply only to the physics model beyond the first planck time.
We can say that God was the cause, however, it cannot be shown that a cause is even necessary.

Although no natural laws were in place, science still demands a cause for the big bang. For the sake of argument we wuill say it may not have been God. But you are still presented with the problem of what caused it. That should provoke the idea that God may have did it.

 

[waitasec]

Although no natural laws were in place, science still demands a cause for the big bang. For the sake of argument we wuill say it may not have been God. But you are still presented with the problem of what caused it. That should provoke the idea that God may have did it.

science is in search for the how rather than the what, from my understanding.
science has only realized how little we really know, however faith knows what, and how and why it was caused...without empirical evidence to support their claim.

 

[1AOA1]

john lennon was on to something. but lets take this idea one step further
(if that's possible...)
lets say science found unquestionable evidence for god somehow...what would happen then?
would god all of a sudden appear to humanity and tell us how we are to serve him, if that is what would be required?

What are they looking for?

or, if at that point after the discovery god still remains the way god is now, what do you think would happen? do you think humanity would unite or become even more divided than we are now?

what do you think?

Strong will eh?

 

[waitasec]

What are they looking for?

any empirical evidence that would point towards a creator

Strong will eh?[/QUOTE]

i'm not sure what you mean...

 

[tumbleweed41]

Although no natural laws were in place, science still demands a cause for the big bang. For the sake of argument we wuill say it may not have been God. But you are still presented with the problem of what caused it. That should provoke the idea that God may have did it.

No, science is dependent on the natural laws of the universe.
Unless we can find what, if any, laws were in place before time and space came into existence, we cannot "demand a cause for the big bang".
We cannot even insist a cause is necessary. The Law of Cause and Effect is dependent on interaction with space and time.

 

[1AOA1]

any empirical evidence that would point towards a creator

Strong will eh?

So...what are they looking for?

i'm not sure what you mean...

Does the ocean have free will?

 

[waitasec]

So...what are they looking for?

exactly

Does the ocean have free will?

do you hold the ocean accountable?

 

[astarath]

No as it has no free will.

 

[1AOA1]

exactly

So they don't know what they're looking for?

do you hold the ocean accountable?

So...does it?

 

[waitasec]

So they don't know what they're looking for?

exactly. do you know what you found?

So...does it?

i don't know, your religion seems to have all the answers :sarcastic