imagine...

[Thief]

Moral awareness is explained easily through societal evolution and cooperative survival.
Again, I am not saying God, however one defines that term, does not exist, just that true faith requires acceptance that God cannot be shown to be logically necessary.

Are you saying that belief in God must be devoid of logic?...to be faith?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Are you saying that belief in God must be devoid of logic?...to be faith?

No, I am saying there is no evidence for the necessity of God.
Therefor, belief in God is based purely on faith.

 

[Thief]

No, I am saying there is evidence for the necessity of God.
Therefor, belief in God is based purely on faith.

I'm sorry...
your last post is to mean....?

'there IS evidence for the necessity of God.'


I do believe in god...yes.
But not because someone told me to.

I do so because....nothing just happens.

Is this similar to your approach?...I'm not sure at this point.

 

[Danmac]

Moral awareness is explained easily through societal evolution and cooperative survival.
Again, I am not saying God, however one defines that term, does not exist, just that true faith requires acceptance that God cannot be shown to be logically necessary.

Conscience is that faculty which involuntarily upbraids inappropriate behavior. It operates independently and it's censures cannot be influenced nor controlled by those it upbraids. That makes clear an objective moral standard, which points to a moral law giver.

 

[waitasec]

Conscience is that faculty which involuntarily upbraids inappropriate behavior. It operates independently and it's censures cannot be influenced nor controlled by those it upbraids.

how in the world do you know it operates independently?

That makes clear an objective moral standard, which points to a moral law giver.

moral standards change...why else was it moral to be able to have dominion over another human being? or being allowed to sell their off spring?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I'm sorry...
your last post is to mean....?

'there IS evidence for the necessity of God.'

My apologies. I mistyped. The post is corrected now.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Conscience is that faculty which involuntarily upbraids inappropriate behavior. It operates independently and it's censures cannot be influenced nor controlled by those it upbraids. That makes clear an objective moral standard, which points to a moral law giver.

That would be according to theologian C.F.H. Henry.
However, ethical behavior can clearly be linked to the survival of a group through societal evolution.

 

[Luminous]

I'm sorry...
your last post is to mean....?

'there IS evidence for the necessity of God.'


I do believe in god...yes.
But not because someone told me to.

I do so because....nothing just happens.

Is this similar to your approach?...I'm not sure at this point.

So God is Nothing?
cuz in your anti-agnostic thought, God just happens.

 

[Danmac]

how in the world do you know it operates independently?

Conscience makes people feel guilty when they do not heed it's warning. Can you control the guilt from a guilty conscience?

moral standards change...why else was it moral to be able to have dominion over another human being? or being allowed to sell their off spring?

The ten commandments never change with cultures. Stealing, lying, murder, and humping another mans wife are typically not tolerated in any culture. I do agree that some laws should be subjective though. Like speeding in your car, and running red lights. Sometimes laws must give way to other laws to promote the greater good. However, there is never a case where the law that prohibits murder gives way to another law. That is why it is a commandment of God. It is never optional to murder, but running a red light to rush aunt Alice to the hospital is.

 

[Danmac]

That would be according to theologian C.F.H. Henry.
However, ethical behavior can clearly be linked to the survival of a group through societal evolution.

Laws promote ethical behavior, not people. People are bent to break the very laws that are intended to further a society. The question is, where did those laws originate? They are not part of human nature, because human nature is selfish, and bent on its own survival. That is why our cultures are littered with lawbreakers that are out to take at the expense of all others. Corporate greed, and government corruption is at an all time high. Seems they forgot we are in this thing together.

 

[Thief]

So God is Nothing?
cuz in your anti-agnostic thought, God just happens.

Cute play on words!

You know what I mean.....

 

[tumbleweed41]

Laws promote ethical behavior, not people. People are bent to break the very laws that are intended to further a society. The question is, where did those laws originate? They are not part of human nature, because human nature is selfish, and bent on its own survival. That is why our cultures are littered with lawbreakers that are out to take at the expense of all others. Corporate greed, and government corruption is at an all time high. Seems they forgot we are in this thing together.

Laws themselves originated to promote social behavior. Human nature is to live in groups, or as part of a society at large, hermits and loners being the exception. While human nature can be selfish, part of that selfishness is greater survival odds as a group.
Even the Golden Rule promotes this, Do to others what you would have them do to you.
What is mine is mine, I do not want it stolen from me, so theft is outlawed by society.
I do not want to die unwillingly, therefore society outlaws murder.
That there are individuals willing to engage in antisocial behavior does not change the overall structure of ethical social behavior as a group.

 

[Luminous]

Cute play on words!

You know what I mean.....

God is not something?
what do you mean?

 

[astarath]

God is

Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Luminous]

God is

Let's just leave it at that.

ok

 

[waitasec]

Conscience makes people feel guilty when they do not heed it's warning. Can you control the guilt from a guilty conscience?

well i can just s easily argue that if one does not follow their truth that is when their guilty conscience kicks in, so no it doesn't act independently does it? the only reason guilt exists is because of the choices one makes by not following their truth, it's called integrity or self respect.

The ten commandments never change with cultures. Stealing, lying, murder, and humping another mans wife are typically not tolerated in any culture. I do agree that some laws should be subjective though. Like speeding in your car, and running red lights. Sometimes laws must give way to other laws to promote the greater good. However, there is never a case where the law that prohibits murder gives way to another law. That is why it is a commandment of God. It is never optional to murder, but running a red light to rush aunt Alice to the hospital is.

however there were laws that condoned the
dominion over another human beings or being allowed to sell their slaves' off spring... i don't see how these laws give way to the greater good.

 

[diosangpastol]

An astronomer's proof that God exists:


"I always look at the 9 planets and see every movement of it,

I realize all of them are moving,

but One thing really amazes me,

the Earth never changes its course-Not Even a Bit,

even 1 degree..

you know why?

If the Earth gets 1 degree closer to sun - it will burn,

and 1 degree apart - it will freeze,



so I realize there's Someone holding it,


Someone call God ....

 

[Dan4reason]

An astronomer's proof that God exists:


"I always look at the 9 planets and see every movement of it,

I realize all of them are moving,

but One thing really amazes me,

the Earth never changes its course-Not Even a Bit,

even 1 degree..

you know why?

If the Earth gets 1 degree closer to sun - it will burn,

and 1 degree apart - it will freeze,



so I realize there's Someone holding it,


Someone call God ....

Actually the earth's distance from the sun does vary over the year, since earth's orbit is elliptical. The earth's orbital path does change over thousands of years. Earth's orbit is elliptical as shown in the image below.

Here are some links which show why orbits happen and their variations.
Orbit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/clisci100ka.html

 

[tumbleweed41]

An astronomer's proof that God exists:...

Besides the obvious mistakes contained in this quote, one wonders who this "Astronomer" is?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Besides the obvious mistakes contained in this quote, one wonders who this "Astronomer" is?

Perhaps he mean "astrologer."