'In God We Trust' and 'Under God'

[Kenny]

That's a modern secular version, nothing to do with traditional Christianity. Scripture is about submitting to authority as given by God. In other words, the Divine Right of Kings.
Nothing to do with the principles this country was founded upon.
Tom

No... you had prophets, kings and priests.

 

[Kenny]

Unless, of course, it's something that Christians might find offensive, then it's time to express outrage.

mmmm.... it was you who said you were offended. Great back stroke.

 

[Kenny]

I figured it was trap.

Who views the words Creator, Supreme Judge of the world, and Divine Providence in the Declaration of Independence as other than God of the Bible?

In God we trust was on money in the late 1800s. The forefathers fear of having another Church of England being the only national church, wrote the DoI with wording that gave credit to the Biblical God, but not any certain religion that had been rising with Protestant divisions. We swear on the Bible. Though I'm sure that that will fade over timne as the different worldly cultures grow within our society.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Christian church was the dominant thought process when evaluating our Republic. But as many have so successfully spun the American ideology to see and teach a different historic past, I do not fall for it. I was one who grew up saying the Lords Prayer and Pledge of Allegiance at school every morning.

Todays America is not a reflection of our past, but what others want us to see.

Man has gotten too big for their britches, and God, who was respected and loved, is now attacked on every level.

But I understand why, and merely watch, as the world moves on around me.

HERE, HERE! Well said!!

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

mmmm.... it was you who said you were offended.

Actually, it was me.

And you still haven't answered my question: How about we change "God" to one of the following

Allah
Brahman
Satan
Zeus
Odin
Pan-Ku

Your choice, but it can't be "God."

 

[Phantasman]

Nice read. Doesn't change my stance though.

 

[Kenny]

Actually, it was me.

And you still haven't answered my question: How about we change "God" to one of the following

Allah
Brahman
Satan
Zeus
Odin
Pan-Ku

Your choice, but it can't be "God."

A little too late... it's God but you can think of it as any of the above if you want... or, if you are your own god, think of it as one nation under you when you say god.

 

[Phantasman]

A turd squeezed out during the McCarthy era.

First printed on coins in 1864

 

[tytlyf]

The dominionsts are trying very hard to erase America's secular constitution.

 

[Phantasman]

No it wasn't, it was created in opposition to them.

You won't find anything about representative government or personal liberty or freedoms like speech and religion anywhere in Scripture.
Tom

lol....

Which is why the US grew into the largest Christian nation in the world. You are not familiat with the Puritans, Jamestown and early US history.

 

[Phantasman]

Deism - Wikipedia

I think you're right. I seem to remember T Jefferson and B Franklin were Deists. But I believe most framers were Protestant. I'm sure there were many arguments in the structure of the Republic.

 

[columbus]

No... you had prophets, kings and priests.

Which are the Christian sort of authorities. Nothing to do with the founding principles of the USA.

For that we could have just stayed part of England. The USA was founded in opposition to traditional, conservative, Christian values and teachings. You won't find any of what distinguished us from the British in Scripture.
Tom

 

[columbus]

lol....

Which is why the US grew into the largest Christian nation in the world. You are not familiat with the Puritans, Jamestown and early US history.

You still won't find any of that in Scripture. You will find it in Enlightenment, secular, views and values.

In fact, as Christian values ebbed, the tendency of this society to do the War, Oppression, Slavery, and Genocide ebbed with them. That's just a fact that anybody can see for themselves.
Tom

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

A little too late... it's God but you can think of it as any of the above if you want... or, if you are your own god, think of it as one nation under you when you say god.

So, another dodge...The fact that you won't answer a direct question speaks volumes.

I guess that we can conclude, then, that were the shoe on the other foot, so to speak, you'd be plenty offended to have to pledge allegiance to Allah, or the Buddha, or Odin, or whichever, and just "think of it as" the Christian god, or "think of it as one nation under you," when you say "Allah" or whatever.

In fact, if that were the case, you'd be all fired up to have "One nation under Odin" removed from the pledge, and "In Buddha We Trust" removed from the currency.

But of course, you can't admit that, now can you?

 

[pearl]

The USSR doesn't exist anymore.

Only in Putin's mind.

 

[ExVasterist]

Anything to do with God should not be in the pledge. Why? According to the Bible, ALL OF MANKIND is his creation, even the very planet, and cosmos of the universe is his creation.
So to say "One Nation Under God" is incredibly arrogant and COMPLETELY goes against what the Bible teaches.

Further more, The "In God We Trust" was not made by the Founders, it was made by the Founders of the Federal Reserve, the very organization that MOST (If not all) Americans say should be torn down.
And you think they are talking about your Christian God? Since when is the Christian God represented as The All Seeing Eye of Amun-Ra????
And finally, it was NEVER founded as a Christian Nation. That Tyrant King they fought against, HE WAS A CHRIST BELIEVING KING who believed his claim as King was given to him the same Abrahamic God that you say this country was founded on.

And as we are right now, the "Pledge" has lost its meaning long ago.

The Illusion:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Truth:
We are anything but "United", The Flag & The name for America use to represent "freedom" but now it represents "Hypocrisy & Warmongering", The Republic is dead (It use to stand for the People & The Constitution, now it stands for itself), Indivisible: unable to be divided or separated (The Hillary Vs Trump Election certainly proved that), and lastly Liberty in a country where we trade our liberties for more security, and "Justice for all" is absolute crap and here's why:

- Man stole $100 from a bank because he was desperate & starving from being homeless, came back moments later & returned it, was arrested, pleaded guilty, received 15 YEARS without the possibility of parole.
- Man stole BILLIONS from other people, was exposed by Anonymous, was arrested, pleaded not guilty, and DESPITE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE (Fraud & caused his law firm to go under)....
4 years, 8 months.

Yeah that is certainly "Justice for all".

Actually, it was me.

And you still haven't answered my question: How about we change "God" to one of the following

Allah
Brahman
Satan
Zeus
Odin
Pan-Ku

Your choice, but it can't be "God."

You do know that "Allah" is Arabic for God, right? So your rule "it can't be God" is hilarious when you realize your error.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I figured it was trap.

Not a trap. I just knew it was likely a Christian would claim something along the lines of it eventually.

Who views the words Creator, Supreme Judge of the world, and Divine Providence in the Declaration of Independence as other than God of the Bible?

The Deists for one. I'll grant you that some Deists like Jefferson saw their God as being worshipped in a very distorted way by Christians. That's just it though, isn't it? Distorted...

Deists like Jefferson didn't believe Christianity has the truth. Therefore, it is not exactly the same God theologically they talked about. They didn't believe God intervened in the world, revealed scripture, and so on.

Man has gotten too big for their britches, and God, who was respected and loved, is now attacked on every level.

Yes, spoken like an Orthodox Christian

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In God we trust was on money in the late 1800s.

While it was on the two-cent piece from 1864–1873, "In God We Trust"was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. It does not have that strong of a presence in our currency.

The forefathers fear of having another Church of England being the only national church, wrote the DoI with wording that gave credit to the Biblical God, but not any certain religion that had been rising with Protestant divisions.

There's just as much (if not more) evidence that the American Forefathers were deists, agnostics, and atheists. Nothing gives credit or legal authority to your god but over-reading.

We swear on the Bible.

And various other sacred texts. Or nothing, if that's your thing. In fact, John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce were both not sworn in on a bible. It's not a requirement.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No... you had prophets, kings and priests.

... and no elected representatives. Democracy is a rejection of Biblical values.

 

[columbus]

Nah, that's still too close to the Christian deity, and in fact- is the Christian deity. Let's change it to In Satan We Trust

Given our (also non Christian) economic system, Capitalism, maybe "In Mammon We Trust" would be the most accurate.

Hard work and self reliance equals success and happiness isn't Scriptural. Any more than representative government is.
Tom

 

[tytlyf]

We swear on the Bible.

Sorry, I just had to.