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'In God We Trust' and 'Under God'

Official Motto and Pledge of Allegiance...

  • Motto should be 'E Pluribus Unum'

    Votes: 10 45.5%
  • Motto should be 'In God We Trust'

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Motto should be 'Rebellion Against Tyrants is Obedience to God'

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Pledge should use original wording without 'US of America' and 'Under God' included

    Votes: 9 40.9%
  • Pledge should use revised wording, including 'Under God'

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I just wanted to vote

    Votes: 6 27.3%

  • Total voters
    22

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
You're kidding right now, right? Just about every legal justification for slavery on record is Christian in nature. They even justified beating their slaves based on the Bible. Lashings rather than beatings was so they wouldn't kill their slave, only make them unconscious for a day or two, as the Law of Moses allows.

I'll grant you the abolitionists were also largely Christian. That just goes to show that Christianity's guiding hand isn't an all-powerful god.
Sigh. I have posted and posted, and my words go over everyones head. Christianity has become an embarrassment of physical acts by no fault of the Spirit. The term Christian you see and that I see are two different things. Because each one follows two different Gods. Christ comes through Jesus, explained further by Paul. It is the knowledge of the Spirit that both received.

The OT ways are what you refer to. Moses Law. This God killed Jesus. Jesus said over and over in the Gospel not to follow this thinking. He called the Jews Father (capital F) a liar, a murderer, not the same God he claimed to be the son of. I can see why Jesus was so frustrated when he said in John:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The Jews, as well as the early catholic ideology are incorporating the devil into their thoughts. They are incorporating lies into truth, which Jesus taught when he became Christ. Christened by the Spirit of God. The Jews never, never had this. The catholics want you to believe it. Their power is physical, not spiritual.

The book of Hebrews is a book written by a catholic sympathizer. Obey your masters (who are men). It is NOT Gospel.

Christ brought freedom. A Christian is a slave to love. There are no physical slaves in Christianity. If there appears to be, it is wolves in sheeps clothing. Without spiritual knowledge (gnosis) they are all blind, following leaders who are blind. Sounds harsh? It should.

Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do not want; and what we do want, we do not do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it. While it exists it is active. Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were nor are nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment.- Gospel of Philip

And:

He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" (Jn 8:34). Truth is the mother, knowledge the father. Those who think that sinning does not apply to them are called "free" by the world. Knowledge of the truth merely makes such people arrogant, which is what the words, "it makes them free" mean. It even gives them a sense of superiority over the whole world. But "Love builds up" (1 Co 8:1). In fact, he who is really free, through knowledge, is a slave, because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of knowledge. Knowledge makes them capable of becoming free. Love never calls something its own, [...] it [...] possess [...]. It never says,"This is yours" or "This is mine," but "All these are yours". Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance). If those anointed with ointment withdraw from them and leave, then those not anointed, who merely stand nearby, still remain in their bad odor. The Samaritan gave nothing but wine and oil to the wounded man. It is nothing other than the ointment. It healed the wounds, for "love covers a multitude of sins" (1 P 4:8).- Gospel of Philip

To the catholic ideology, these words are heresy. To the spiritual seeker, they are revealed.

Your argument is with the orthodox, not seekers of Christ. They have no skeletons in their closet, as the catholics orthodox did and do today.

Just my perspective.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Swearing on the Bible doesn't mean swearing to God to me. Just as swearing on the Qu'ran means swearing to Allah. Books have no power.
So swearing on the bible doesn't mean swearing to god, but swearing on the quran means swearing to god?
 
In my continuing effort to be more political, I suggest we discuss the national motto, and the subject of 'under God' in the pledge of allegiance.

Do you think our motto should be E Pluribus Unum, In God We Trust, or- should we just go with what Franklin favored: rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God?

Same question for 'under God' in the pledge. Does it belong there? Was the original pledge better? I include the mentioned original below:

pledge-of-allegiance-5-728.jpg


Explain your answers, if you don't mind.

I voted for "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God" Because it sounds like a phrase a noble Paladin would say and I always wanted to be a Paladin.
 
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