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In the Beginning.....

InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
ACEofALLaces said:
Ok, so God was already "somewhere".....but the way Genesis is worded, there WAS no "somewhere" until God had CREATED it. Which prompts the question, then where WAS God, before God created a place for HIM to be?



Yeah, me neither....but I certainly cannot simply declare that God was in some kind of "spiritual realm" without having a clue what that even means. But, that's just me.....heh heh heh What does it mean to YOU?
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Yes, the Genesis account does make it sound like there was nothing Physical/Material before God created the heavens and the earth. It doesn’t say anything otherwise though, concerning the spiritual. The Bible does plainly say God is Spirit, as well as make several references to spiritual beings and a non-physical spiritual world that humans beings in their natural state cannot see.
 
Truthseeker

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
RestlessSoul said:
To resolve the apparent paradox of what was “before” the beginning of the universe would be, in the words of Stephen Hawking, “the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God”.
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A God he didn't believe in, and this definition of God, that if you know all the laws of nature you know the mind of God makes God rather limited. Einstein had this same limited idea of what God was all about, though he posited the existence of such a God. Einstein said he wanted to know Gods thoughts, meaning how God operated the universe. Einstein didn't believe in a personal God.
 
Colt

Colt

Well-Known Member
ACEofALLaces said:
In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?
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God existed as a Universal Absolute before creating time.

Genesis was created by the Israelites as a common story of origins.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
Truthseeker said:
A God he didn't believe in, and this definition of God, that if you know all the laws of nature you know the mind of God makes God rather limited. Einstein had this same limited idea of what God was all about, though he posited the existence of such a God. Einstein said he wanted to know Gods thoughts, meaning how God operated the universe. Einstein didn't believe in a personal God.
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Is there someone who does not have a limited idea of what a god might be?
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
74x12 said:
Well of course but in any case energy can't exist without light existing. Because energy emits light.
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A stone has a massive energy. Just multiply its mass by the square of the speed of light, to find out how much.
Yet, it emits no light.

Ciao

- viole
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
pearl said:
In his 'little' popular book, 'A Brief History of Time' Hawkings recalls his invitation by the Vatican's Pontifical Academy of Science investigating the Big Bang theory and that they were warned by John Paul II not to enter into the time before the BB as it was 'the mind of God, and Hawkings jokes that was exactly the time he was interested in.
"
"He [the pope] told us that it was all right to study the evolution
of the universe after the big bang, but we should not inquire
into the big bang itself because that was the moment of Creation
and therefore the work of God. I was glad then
that he did not know the subject of the talk
I had just given at the conference - the possibility
that space-time was finite but had no boundary, which means that it
had no beginning, no moment of Creation. I had no desire to share the fate of
Galileo, with whom I feel a strong sense of identity, partly because of
the coincidence of having been born exactly 300 years after his death!"
Stephen Hawking, Galileo and the Pope (stmaryvalleybloom.org)
"Finally, Dr. Stephen Hawking, winner of the Pius XI Gold Medal, presented to the Academy a summary of his scientific research, focused especially on the study of the relationship between the forces of gravitation and expansion existing in the universe and the investigation of so-called "black holes".
Plenary Session (pas.va)

Hawking's speech
The Origin of the Universe (pas.va)
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Yeah, there’s a section in A Brief History of Time where he discusses the theory of a universe without boundaries, yet still finite, and still expanding. I had trouble following that tbh, it’s so counter intuitive that it’s almost impossible to conceptualise. Though perhaps no more difficult to conceptualise, than a space comprised of more than four dimensions.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
F1fan said:
I've read creationists claim that God as the spirit and timeless already existed, and it created the material universe that the spirit animated.

Now, how did the creator make material from nothing? Well that's a question.
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you may very well think of it as something from nothing . science does give the answer . every thing is made by the stars .stars start out as great balls of hydrogen a invisible gas. no one can say where the first star got its start or how long it lasted ,yet it did happen . it took time perhaps a Googleplex squared to get it all to the point where we are now .
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
cataway said:
you may very well think of it as something from nothing . science does give the answer . every thing is made by the stars .stars start out as great balls of hydrogen a invisible gas. no one can say where the first star got its start or how long it lasted ,yet it did happen . it took time perhaps a Googleplex squared to get it all to the point where we are now .
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Lawrence Kraus has numerous videos that explain the "something from nothing" according to science.
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Truthseeker said:
A God he didn't believe in, and this definition of God, that if you know all the laws of nature you know the mind of God makes God rather limited. Einstein had this same limited idea of what God was all about, though he posited the existence of such a God. Einstein said he wanted to know Gods thoughts, meaning how God operated the universe. Einstein didn't believe in a personal God.
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Yes, I’m aware of Stephen Hawking’s declaration of atheism, and of some of Einstein’s comments about a personal God. Atheists in particular are quick to quote these specific observations in support of their own position; but perspectives alter over time, and in any case Einstein and Hawking kept open minds, I think. They both referenced God a lot, as did Niels Bohr in his discourses with Einstein, though of course physicists, like poets, often talk in metaphors.
 
P

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
ACEofALLaces said:
In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?
Click to expand...

Yes, it would imply that God was already.
Also, "the beginning" begs the question: Beginning of what?
I would say it most likely refers to a first beginning.
Not a beginning of God (nor the beginning of any other beginningless thing), but rather a beginning of all things that begin (in other words, "the beginning").

I would also consider the possibility that, as a story, it is not necessarily literal.
 
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Sheldon

Sheldon

Veteran Member
RestlessSoul said:
Yes, I’m aware of Stephen Hawking’s declaration of atheism...Hawking kept open minds, I think. They both referenced God a lot,
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A deity he declared unequivocally he did not believe in. You do know what open minded means right? Only you seem to be misrepresenting it, as I've often seen theists do, as a prima facie acceptance of claims or beliefs without any or proper objective evidence.

some of Einstein’s comments about a personal God. Atheists in particular are quick to quote these specific observations in support of their own position;


Einstein and Hawking kept open minds, I think. They both referenced God a lot,
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:facepalm:


physicists, like poets, often talk in metaphors.
Click to expand...

Not when they want their work in physics peer reviewed though, obviously. :rolleyes:
 
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