Income Inequality.

[Kfox]

Isn’t Black Lives Matter a direct response to a perceived lack of power? Humans who lack power over their ow lives individually, have discovered many times over the centuries that collectively, they are powerful. Often more powerful, if they work together, than the forces lined up against them. Because, in the words of 19th century English radical Percy Shelley, “Ye are many, they are few”.

I was making the point that Black Lives Matter were not made up of rich people, yet they have power. Do you agree with me?

 

[Kfox]

That part I understood.

What I didn't understand was your comment of how it means "taxing the poor, because they raise the taxes on the poor and cut the taxes of the rich"

If everybody pays the same %, how is that a tax cut for the rich?

Because currently the poor pay no taxes, and the rich pay a disproportionate amount of the taxes. To make everything even raises the tax on the poor, and cuts the taxes of the rich

 

[Kfox]

A social movement made up of millions of people with explicit political goals is not comparable to the actual social elites.

I was not saying they were the same, just that they both have power

No comment on the wealthy? Because I'm pretty certain wealthy people make up a significant majority, far more than any of those groups (and not forgetting that all of those groups are wealthy).

When I said wealthy, I was talking about billionaires. How many in that group do you think are billionaires?

 

[metis]

IMO the problem with this idea of billionaires using their money to buy legislation is for every billionaire using his money to get some law passed, there is another billionaire using just as much money to get the law defeated and they cancel each other out.

We have the best government money can buy.

 

[Pete in Panama]

You are making my point; nobody owns the means of production, they own a tiny fraction of the means of production

Interesting concept, if the owners each have a share that you decide is "too" small, then you get to say it's too small to exist.

Most folks wouldn't agree w/ that.

 

[Heyo]

You are making my point; nobody owns the means of production, they own a tiny fraction of the means of production

So, as nobody owns, say, Tesla, I can walk right in their facilities and nobody can legally stop me?

 

[Kfox]

There is no 'percentage' involved. You're trying to ignore the obvious. Which is motive, not percentage.

Then you should have phrased it differently, you should have spoke of motive instead of claiming a net positive for everybody.

Do I seek to trade for my own enhancement, only? Or do I trade with the intent of our collective enhancement. In other words, am I out to exploit the other person in the trade for everything I can get, or am I out to make a FAIR trade in which we are both benefiting equally. It's a question of fair trade, or exploitation.

Recently a Christian friend of mine said if everybody loved Jesus and loved perfectly the way he loves us, all problems would be solved.
I told him, any system that requires perfection is worthless for people who are not perfect. Your ideas of trade with intent of our collective enhancement is a perfect idea if people were morally perfect; but we are not. The reality is there are a lot of imperfect, selfish people out there and the system in place has to reflect that; if it is not, the system is useless. Capitalism (with regulations in place) allows those who want to be perfect remain perfect, and allows those who are greedy and selfish to accumulate in a way that helps others.

It's not subjective at all, because it defines the intention behind the trade, not the content of the trade.

It's not subjective at all, because it defines the intention behind the trade, not the content of the trade.

No one calls being exploited for their ignorance, or their lack of cash, or for whatever reason a "opportunity".

Years ago when I was struggling financially, I needed a car but could not afford one. There was a guy in town who was very good at fixing cars out of his garage; (back yard mechanic) This guy would buy cars from auctions that didn’t run right, or get cars nobody wanted that didn’t run at all, and would fix them up and sell them cheap. He was known for selling cars for $400-$500, and they ran pretty good. I didn’t have the thousands required to buy from a used car lot, but I did have the hundreds to buy from him. And if I had car troubles, I could take it back to him and he would fix it cheap. For me this guy was a life saver; if it weren’t for him I would not have been able to afford a car during that time, but because of him, I always had a car that ran even though due to my ignorance of auto mechanics, my lack of cash, I was forced to buy from him. Do you really believe I was being exploited?

 

[Kfox]

What power does any random individual has on BLM?

BLM was started by 3 women who was relatively poor

Source that the billionaires are cancelling each other's political influence?

How many billionaires support the Democratic vs. Republican parties?

Recently, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has been on a crusade against what he believes is undue influence f

www.politifact.com

 

[Kfox]

Your opinions are not intrinsically facts, nor have you provided even one economic source to substantiate what you have chosen to believe.

The links you provided were opinions too. I'm just giving my opinion, if you disagree with my opinion, explain why.

 

[Kfox]

So, as nobody owns, say, Tesla, I can walk right in their facilities and nobody can legally stop me?

No single person owns Tesla.

 

[Heyo]

No single person owns Tesla.

That's not what you said previously. You said there is no ownership if the ownership isn't absolute.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I was making the point that Black Lives Matter were not made up of rich people, yet they have power. Do you agree with me?

They have power collectively, yes. As do Trade Unions, co-operative societies, and other egalitarian mass membership organisations.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I was not saying they were the same, just that they both have power

By that standard, any social movement or group counts as having power. It also ignores that a lot of these movements had the support of wealthy patrons and the ear of influential (and also wealthy) political figures.

When I said wealthy, I was talking about billionaires. How many in that group do you think are billionaires?

So you don't think people who are millionaires count as being "wealthy"?

Seriously. Who do you think, on average, is more likely to have social power? A person barely able to make rent, or a millionaire?

 

[Audie]

They have power collectively, yes. As do Trade Unions, co-operative societies, and other egalitarian mass membership organisations.

Apparently some quickly made themselves rich

 

[Audie]

By that standard, any social movement or group counts as having power. It also ignores that a lot of these movements had the support of wealthy patrons and the ear of influential (and also wealthy) political figures.


So you don't think people who are millionaires count as being "wealthy"?

Seriously. Who do you think, on average, is more likely to have social power? A person barely able to make rent, or a millionaire?

A millionaire is not wealthy.

 

[Koldo]

BLM was started by 3 women who was relatively poor

This didn't answer my question: What power does any random individual has on BLM?

How many billionaires support the Democratic vs. Republican parties?

Recently, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has been on a crusade against what he believes is undue influence f

www.politifact.com

1) Your source doesn't support your position.

2) You seem to be under the assumption that supporting one party entails cancelling everything the rich that support the other party want. But that's not necessarily the case.

 

[Kfox]

That's not what you said previously. You said there is no ownership if the ownership isn't absolute.

No, I said you don't own the means of production if ownership is not absolute

 

[Kfox]

They have power collectively, yes. As do Trade Unions, co-operative societies, and other egalitarian mass membership organisations.

Yes.

 

[Kfox]

By that standard, any social movement or group counts as having power. It also ignores that a lot of these movements had the support of wealthy patrons and the ear of influential (and also wealthy) political figures.

Yes; eventually even the rich got on board and the people who started it became rich. But that does not take away from the fact that it was started by people who were not rich

So you don't think people who are millionaires count as being "wealthy"?

Seriously. Who do you think, on average, is more likely to have social power? A person barely able to make rent, or a millionaire?

The question was not about who is more likely to have social power, it was about who has power

 

[Kfox]

This didn't answer my question: What power does any random individual has on BLM?

And you didn't answer my question of providing an example of a single rich person using his money to enact legislation that affects everybody, on his own

1) Your source doesn't support your position.

2) You seem to be under the assumption that supporting one party entails cancelling everything the rich that support the other party want. But that's not necessarily the case.

I'm saying while one person uses his money to fight for a specific cause, someone else is using his money to oppose that cause.