Income Inequality.

[Koldo]

And you didn't answer my question of providing an example of a single rich person using his money to enact legislation that affects everybody, on his own

What exactly do you mean by 'on his own'?

I'm saying while one person uses his money to fight for a specific cause, someone else is using his money to oppose that cause.

Using similar ammounts of money? Source?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes; eventually even the rich got on board and the people who started it became rich. But that does not take away from the fact that it was started by people who were not rich

Which is fine, but you wouldn't therefore use that to conclude that, therefore, not being rich is not a factor in social influence, when it clearly and obviously is.

The question was not about who is more likely to have social power, it was about who has power

And who has power is disproportionately rich people. Pointing out that there are a small number of non-wealthy people who have social influence and power doesn't downplay the role money HAS in people developing influence.

 

[metis]

The links you provided were opinions too.

No, they weren't, and no song & dance changes this.

"Evidence" and "opinion" are not synonymous terms. Thus, it makes me wonder if you actually read any of them, and my inkling is that you didn't.

 

[Audie]

I've always considered it as practiced in the United States to be a good thing. But I know a lot of people seem to think it is bad; why?

K

Jealousy and ignorance

 

[Heyo]

No, I said you don't own the means of production if ownership is not absolute

And the assembly hall of Tesla is not a mean of production? Do you know what people do there? Or where cars come from? Do you think they are brought by the stork?

 

[Kfox]

What exactly do you mean by 'on his own'?

The clam was of a person using his money to enact laws that effect everybody.

Using similar ammounts of money? Source?

I didn't mention amount, just that different people use money to support opposing laws.

 

[Kfox]

Which is fine, but you wouldn't therefore use that to conclude that, therefore, not being rich is not a factor in social influence, when it clearly and obviously is.

I never denied money could be a factor, I’m just saying lots of things can be a factor; money being only one of them

And who has power is disproportionately rich people.

What evidence do you have of this?

Pointing out that there are a small number of non-wealthy people who have social influence and power doesn't downplay the role money HAS in people developing influence.

Who do you think has more influence; Joe Rogan with his podcast? Or the Koch Brothers with their billions?
Who do you think has more influence; Jordan Peterson and his Youtube videos? Or Warren Buffet with his billions?
Who do you think had more influence, Colin Kaepernick and his kneeling protests? or Larry Ellison and his billions?

 

[Kfox]

No, they weren't, and no song & dance changes this.

"Evidence" and "opinion" are not synonymous terms. Thus, it makes me wonder if you actually read any of them, and my inkling is that you didn't.

The idea that just because something that works in Denmark and Sweden, that it will work in the United States is an opinion; not a fact. If you disagree, provide the facts that prove it will work in this country as well.

 

[Kfox]

And the assembly hall of Tesla is not a mean of production? Do you know what people do there? Or where cars come from? Do you think they are brought by the stork?

What on Earth does this have to do with anything I've said?

 

[timothy1027]

Unregulated (or even poorly regulated) Capitalism is a form of legalized exploitation, disguised as something else.

 

[Audie]

Unregulated (or even poorly regulated) Capitalism is a form of legalized exploitation, disguised as something else.

This unbridled or unregulated etc capitalism
has never existed anywhere.

As for exploitation that's a very big tent, most anything
can be made to fit under it.

 

[timothy1027]

This unbridled or unregulated etc capitalism
has ever existed anywhere.

As for exploitation that's a very big tent, most anything
can be made to fit under it.

I have a BIG problem with the EXTREME wealthy elite in America who routinely avoid taxes and purchase laws to increase their wealth & comfort, while making the masses suffer.

 

[sayak83]

I never denied money could be a factor, I’m just saying lots of things can be a factor; money being only one of them

What evidence do you have of this?

Who do you think has more influence; Joe Rogan with his podcast? Or the Koch Brothers with their billions?
Who do you think has more influence; Jordan Peterson and his Youtube videos? Or Warren Buffet with his billions?
Who do you think had more influence, Colin Kaepernick and his kneeling protests? or Larry Ellison and his billions?

Obviously Koch Brothers, Warren Buffet and Larry Ellision. By a looong way. No brainer there. Why was this question even asked??

 

[Heyo]

The idea that just because something that works in Denmark and Sweden, that it will work in the United States is an opinion; not a fact. If you disagree, provide the facts that prove it will work in this country as well.

Shifting the burden of proof?
We assume things to be the same no matter where or when until proven they are not. Part of that proof is identifying the variable that has to change to make something special.
E.g.: Water boils at 100° C. Which is true in London, Paris, New York, Rio, Capetown, Sidney and Tokyo. It is not true in Kathmandu. The variable is altitude.
What is special in the US?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I never denied money could be a factor, I’m just saying lots of things can be a factor; money being only one of them

Money being clearly the most significant one, hence why - when trying to name people who have significant social power without money, you can only name a global social movement made up of millions of people without singular leadership.

What evidence do you have of this?

Again, name somebody who has significant social power who isn't wealthy, and name me a wealthy person who doesn't have significant social power.

Who do you think has more influence; Joe Rogan with his podcast?

Joe Rogan, the multi-millionaire whose podcast is supported and funded by billionaires?

Or the Koch Brothers with their billions?

The Koch brothers. Hands down.

Who do you think has more influence; Jordan Peterson and his Youtube videos?

Again, Jordan Peterson, the multi-millionaire, funded by billionaires.

Or Warren Buffet with his billions?

Buffet, hands down.

Who do you think had more influence, Colin Kaepernick and his kneeling protests?

Again, Colin Karepernick, the multi-millionaire athlete given platforms by massive corporations.

or Larry Ellison and his billions?

Ellison, hands down.

See, you're making a basic error. You think power and influence is about people knowing who you are and listening to you, personally. It's not that simple. It's about the media and political power you have. Joe Rogan may speak to millions of people, but do you think there is a "Joe Rogan lobby" currently haunting Washington, with the ear of several major lawmakers? Do you think entire states would flip out if Joe Rogan said he wanted to take his podcast overseas? How many media organizations get their instructions direct from Joe Rogan every morning?

What's more, multi-millionaires make up around only 2% of the US population. Do you think that it's somehow a coincidence that every person you named above as having social power just so happens to belong in this same group that is comprised of only 2% of the population?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is special in the US?

The idiots who believe we're so damn special we're exceptional in the world.

 

[Heyo]

The idiots who believe we're so damn special we're exceptional in the world.

:winner:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

:winner:

It's gets so damn stupid amd dumb here I was taught growing up other countries don't have freedom like America. None of them do. Granted it was easier to do that when I was a kid and people could point to countries behind the Iron Curtain, but even as a kid that bs claim made no sense to me because there's places like Canada and England.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Can you name someone who has actually done this in today's economy? IMO the problem with this idea of billionaires using their money to buy legislation is for every billionaire using his money to get some law passed, there is another billionaire using just as much money to get the law defeated and they cancel each other out. Rich people do not agree on issues, there are just as many progressive rich people who fight to get progressive ideas passed, as there are conservative rich people who fight to get conservative laws passed. They are not like black people voting 95% democratic or for the same type of ideas, and get vilified by other blacks if they don't tow the line; rich people have ideas that are as diverse as can be.

John Rockefeller (July 8, 1839 – May 23, 1937) planned to buy out as many other oil refineries as he could. To do this, he often used hardball tactics. In 1874, Standard started acquiring new oil pipeline networks. This enabled the company to cut off the flow of crude oil to refineries Rockefeller wanted to buy. When a rival company attempted to build a competing pipeline across Pennsylvania, Standard Oil bought up land along the way to block it. Rockefeller also resorted to outright bribery of Pennsylvania legislators. In the end, Rockefeller made a deal with the other company, which gave Standard Oil ownership of nearly all the oil pipelines in the nation.

William Randolph Hearst (April 29, 1863 – August 14, 1951) was a primary actor who caused the prohibition of 'Marihuana' through propaganda. Hemp was going to disrupt the textiles industry, and Hearst among other members of that industry...

Nelson Rockefeller (July 8, 1908 – January 26, 1979) was John's grandson is accredited for getting the "Rockefeller drug laws" passed in New York...

Don't count those examples as "today's economy"?

Here's a couple news headlines about Bill Gates (October 28, 1955 - Living:

AP analysis shows how Bill Gates influences education policy

SEATTLE (AP) — Billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates saw an opportunity with a new federal education law that has widespread repercussions for American classrooms.

apnews.com

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

I could probably keep listing examples all day long... This info took less than 10 minutes to procure.

 

[Audie]

I have a BIG problem with the EXTREME wealthy elite in America who routinely avoid taxes and purchase laws to increase their wealth & comfort, while making the masses suffer.

Is that what you think is happening?

Shifting the burden of proof?
We assume things to be the same no matter where or when until proven they are not. Part of that proof is identifying the variable that has to change to make something special.
E.g.: Water boils at 100° C. Which is true in London, Paris, New York, Rio, Capetown, Sidney and Tokyo. It is not true in Kathmandu. The variable is altitude.
What is special in the US?

We do? You need to narrow down
finer than " things"