Income Inequality.

[Mock Turtle]

Good for you.

I wasn't implying we were doing better, or that we have an immigrant problem as such, but plenty here do see this as being so. They seem to forget the Tories have been in power for over a decade and mismanaged the whole thing - as to immigrants in general whether legal or illegal. But then they seem to have erased Brexit from their memories.

 

[Stevicus]

We don't have an immigrant problem, we have a xenophobic citizens problem.

We have the same problem, too, although it's led to a bit of an ideological tangle among the right wing. They constantly crow about the border, wanting to build a bigger wall, send the illegal immigrants to Nantucket, etc. But they also want a cheap labor supply comprised of undocumented workers who work cheap and under the table. That also appears to be a factor in income inequality, since it amounts to an inflation in the supply of labor, thus driving down the overall cost of labor.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Bill Gates is likely the most influential Billionaire in the World. Between the Gates Foundation and other organizations he is behind, he has made it very clear he uses his wealth to make a difference in the world. Though all billionaires can do this? The vast majority do not. Bill Gates is definitely an exception to the rule

Yes, billionaires are exceptions to the rule. The rule being low income, the exception being wealthier than a small country.

"According to Forbes, there are many billionaires who are richer than small countries." - Bing A.I.

 

[Heyo]

We have the same problem, too, although it's led to a bit of an ideological tangle among the right wing. They constantly crow about the border, wanting to build a bigger wall, send the illegal immigrants to Nantucket, etc. But they also want a cheap labor supply comprised of undocumented workers who work cheap and under the table. That also appears to be a factor in income inequality, since it amounts to an inflation in the supply of labor, thus driving down the overall cost of labor.

We have solved that problem. Undocumented employment is too risky for the employers. The chances to get caught are high, the fines devastating and it can even land you in prison. And we don't have many illegal immigrants anyway. You can't get a job, you can't rent a flat, you can't open a bank account. Otoh, it is easy to apply for asylum or immigration. In the US it is hard to get in legally but easy to get in illegally.

 

[PureX]

We don't have an immigrant problem, we have a xenophobic citizens problem.

I agree. And a serious too much greed at the top, problem. When millions of citizens with full time jobs still can't afford a home to live in.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I accept culture as a variable. And I accept that the US has a special culture. After all. the US is the most criminal culture on Earth (measured by per capita incarceration) and with a very wide margin to the Nordic countries.
But I'm not so sure about the causality. Isn't it possible to have a social community in the land of thieves and thugs or is the US the land of thieves and thugs because it has no social community?

More like the land of those in possession of small amounts drugs. Of course ****ting on the poor doesn't help, but the drug laws are what inflates America's incarceration rate to make it soar above any dictatorship. It's so ****ing pathetic that a rapist can easily get less time than someone in possession of an ounce of pot.

 

[We Never Know]

We have solved that problem. Undocumented employment is too risky for the employers. The chances to get caught are high, the fines devastating and it can even land you in prison. And we don't have many illegal immigrants anyway. You can't get a job, you can't rent a flat, you can't open a bank account. Otoh, it is easy to apply for asylum or immigration. In the US it is hard to get in legally but easy to get in illegally.

"The latest available data show that during the last 12 months (April 2018 to March 2019) only 11 individuals (and no companies) were prosecuted in just seven cases,” TRAC said in a statement releasing the findings. “Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment.”

These results are based upon case-by-case data obtained from the Justice Department as a result of litigation brought by TRAC under the Freedom of Information Act.

Additionally, of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite, as the New York Times reports, Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite-enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”

Given the millions of undocumented immigrants now working in this country, the TRAC statement continues, the odds of being criminally prosecuted for employing undocumented workers appears to be “exceedingly” remote."

How Many Employers Have Been Prosecuted for Employing Illegals?

Employers hiring illegal workers face "exceedingly remote" chances for prosecution.

hrexecutive.com

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"The latest available data show that during the last 12 months (April 2018 to March 2019) only 11 individuals (and no companies) were prosecuted in just seven cases,” TRAC said in a statement releasing the findings. “Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment.”

These results are based upon case-by-case data obtained from the Justice Department as a result of litigation brought by TRAC under the Freedom of Information Act.

Additionally, of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite, as the New York Times reports, Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite-enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”

Given the millions of undocumented immigrants now working in this country, the TRAC statement continues, the odds of being criminally prosecuted for employing undocumented workers appears to be “exceedingly” remote."

How Many Employers Have Been Prosecuted for Employing Illegals?

Employers hiring illegal workers face "exceedingly remote" chances for prosecution.

hrexecutive.com

I used to live near a Tyson plant (or whatever it's called now) in Indiana. They've actually been hit several times over the years and different owners. But they keep hiring a dozen people all using the same Social Security number because it's cheaper to hire them and occasionally get caught doing it. And it's not just that plant but at least a few of them around where I lived in Indiana.
Now, clearly they depend on these illegal employments of undocumented immigrants but they'll still demand English be the only language spoken (outside of ag it's very rare to hear anything other than English in Indiana) and have pushed for English only bills. Which is ironic and hysterically comical because that cowboy figure they love speaks a lot of Spanish by default.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Experience la vita loco in the spicy town of Valparaiso... Indiana!!
It has a South American name but it's midwestern tame, watch cornfields flowing into the horizon!!!
Where everyone is welcome preferably white, with a rich and diverse 87% Caucasian culture speaking anglophone 100%!!!​

I couldn't help myself, apologies. I live in Michigan just north of Indiana, lol.
It gets hard to stay awake driving North to South through your state cornfields for... ever.. And tons of weird city names from around the world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Experience la vita loco in the spicy town of Valparaiso... Indiana!!
It has a South American name but it's midwestern tame, watch cornfields flowing into the horizon!!!
Where everyone is welcome preferably white, with a rich and diverse 87% Caucasian culture speaking anglophone 100%!!!​

I couldn't help myself, apologies. I live in Michigan just north of Indiana, lol.
It gets hard to stay awake driving North to South through your state cornfields for... ever.. And tons of weird city names from around the world.

I used to live a couple hours south of Valparaiso. It was even where the Girl Scout camp is that was the main location of the LARP games I attended.
And you forgot the cis-straight-Christian preference of that prejudiced ****hole state that can't keep college grads because it's so backwards, has very few good economic opportunities, is a cultural barrwn wasteland amd a state where you're likely to make peanuts your whole life.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I used to live a couple hours south of Valparaiso. It was even where the Girl Scout camp is that was the main location of the LARP games I attended.
And you forgot the cis-straight-Christian preference of that prejudiced ****hole state that can't keep college grads because it's so backwards, has very few good economic opportunities, is a cultural barrwn wasteland amd a state where you're likely to make peanuts your whole life.

Sounds like Michigan... Or the country?

LARP always seemed interesting, I play D&D and Pathfinder and the likes. Don't think I'd have the patience or drive to maintain LARPing as a hobby. Bet it's a great escape though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sounds like Michigan... Or the country?

LARP always seemed interesting, I play D&D and Pathfinder and the likes. Don't think I'd have the patience or drive to maintain LARPing as a hobby. Bet it's a great escape though.

LARPing is a blast. It ruins Elder Scrolls games, is more than D&D can ever be, amd is so much fun.

 

[Kfox]

Obviously Koch Brothers, Warren Buffet and Larry Ellision. By a looong way. No brainer there. Why was this question even asked??

Because I believe you are dead wrong. Black Lives Matter was started by 3 women, and a hash-tag, and it morphed into something that changed the entire world. Never underestimate the effects of someone with a microphone.

 

[Kfox]

I accept culture as a variable. And I accept that the US has a special culture. After all. the US is the most criminal culture on Earth (measured by per capita incarceration) and with a very wide margin to the Nordic countries.
But I'm not so sure about the causality. Isn't it possible to have a social community in the land of thieves and thugs or is the US the land of thieves and thugs because it has no social community?

The US is a very diverse country. It is not a country full of criminals, there are areas where there is a lot of crime, and places where there is very little crime. But my point had nothing to do with crime, it has to do with the culture that is much different than Europe; even in places where there is little crime

 

[Kfox]

Even if I wasted my time and did that, you'd likely either ignore it or just find some other lame excuse to blow it off without providing even one shred of evidence yourself. IOW, it would just be a waste of time and effort.

You won't do it because you can't.

 

[Kfox]

You seriously don't know about the Koch family's influence on American politics?

Koch network - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nowhere does it say they act alone; one of the Kosh Brothers unsuccessfully ran for vice president, so that is sorta like using your money to enact change, but the point I was arguing against was this idea of a person acting alone getting laws enacted by the politicians he bought and paid for; that effect everybody. Nothing here said any of the Kosh brothers did any of that.

Any state in which his businesses employ a huge number of their citizens.

Sending your headquarters overseas doesn’t mean people here lose their jobs.

Again, you're hyper-focusing on specifics rather than acknowledging the broader point. Stop it.

Then stop speaking hyperbolic then. It’s hard to tell when you are being serious vs melodramatic. My point is, you should not underestimate a person with a microphone who has millions of listeners. Black Lives Matter was started with 3 people who drew the attention of millions and made changes world wide! How is the power generated by a poor person who is good at getting his message across, motivating millions to enact change different from a rich person using his money to enact change?

Hence why I said MULTI-millionaires.

Here's How Many Millionaires and Billionaires Live in the United States

The United States has the largest wealth market in the world. Explore the latest data on how many millionaires and billionaires call the United States home.

www.fool.com

Also, I would be careful about using that particular study, because... it's not a study. I've tried to investigate the Ramsey study multiple times and... Well, here it is:

https://cdn.ramseysolutions.net/media/company/pr/everyday-millionaires-research/national-study-of-millionaire-new.pdf?_ga=2.179747745.407458064.1687958764-234856444.1680252274&_gl=1*137hxkp*_ga*MjM0ODU2NDQ0LjE2ODAyNTIyNzQ.*_ga_02SXDH1H96*MTY4Nzk1ODc2NC4xLjEuMTY4Nzk1ODgwMC4yNC4wLjA.*_fplc*OXQ2RDZsdllhNUdMU0c3Uko4TSUyQlAlMkZRN01QUTNva0lhak1tU205Y2tHT2lPMXllYk1CRnUlMkZhOGtHSzdLemJKcGN3TmsxcEl2WTdWVUV3RVFXZFZ6bzJHTWZVdk56c1B5R1lRTmRLQzc4SUElMkJGQXYzYiUyQnBuZnNoblZ6d29JQSUzRCUzRA..

That's it.

Literally, that's the "study".

No breakdown, no analysis, no explanation of the terms used, no information whatsoever on the demographics surveyed or the questions asked.

It's less than useless.

Here is one from CNBC which basically says the same thing.

Nearly 22 million Americans are millionaires. Here's how they got wealthy

Chris Hogan studied over 10,000 millionaires to find out how they became wealthy. Here's what he learned.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Heyo]

The US is a very diverse country. It is not a country full of criminals, there are areas where there is a lot of crime, and places where there is very little crime. But my point had nothing to do with crime, it has to do with the culture that is much different than Europe; even in places where there is little crime

So, if there is diversity, do you agree that at least a portion of the populace would be happy with a Northern Model?

And for the rest, what part of US culture prevents people being social aside from being criminal?

 

[Kfox]

Ability to influence policies of nations, banks, large international institutions like world banks, G20 as well as ability to hire and fire millions of people. A single sentence from any of these people can cause world economies to gain or loose billions of dollars. What are you even talking about in the comparison!

Larry Ellison is a Chief Technology Officer for Oracal. Who are these millions of people a Chief technology Officer can fire? Yeah; he helped start the company, but that doesn't mean he hires and fires people, that’s what managers do. As far as the other stuff you mentioned, the company he works for may be able to have that type of an effect, but I doubt HE has the ability to do any of that on his own.

 

[Kfox]

Well the main difference between the UK and the USA would likely be your lax weapon ownership legislation which is more a USA anomaly than much else, but we probably have as much racial diversity here and immigrant problems, as does much of Europe, as the USA.

The US doesn't really have an immigrant problem, we have an illegal immigrant problem.

 

[Kfox]

So, if there is diversity, do you agree that at least a portion of the populace would be happy with a Northern Model?

And for the rest, what part of US culture prevents people being social aside from being criminal?

How much taxes is required for the Northern model, and what does the northern model entail?