Intelligence: A turn-on?

[Sunstone]

So, they just dislike genuinely nice guys?

Their daddy beat them and girls tend to marry people who in ways important to the girls resemble their closest or most important care givers while growing up. Sometimes that's their abusive daddy.

Also, people -- all of us -- tend to favor people who we can understand, and to ignore or even dislike people who we do not understand.

Girls who've been abused understand abusers, but they don't understand nice guys. When their abusers gave them an ice cream, their abusers did it because they wanted something from the girls. They never did it just to please the girls without wanting something in return.

When a nice guy comes along and gives the girls an ice cream, the girls are at first suspicious and wonder what he's up to. But that by itself doesn't turn them off. What turns them off is when they realize they can't figure out what the nice guy is up to (they can't figure him out, of course, because he ain't up to anything -- which is the very last thing the girls expect). When they realize they can't figure him out, they either get scared (fear of the unknown), or they simply get turned off.

Another reason abused girls don't like nice guys is because the girls think of the world as divided between winners and losers. The abusers are the winners, and the abused are the losers. When a nice guy comes along, they usually see him as a loser.

I had a friend who was abused growing up. For a long time, she saw me as a loser, but a loser who she somehow needed as a friend. So, she'd drop by just about every day, and we'd go to all sorts of places together. Our main topic of conversation was her abusive boyfriend, who she refused to leave.

A few years went by.

Then one day she and I were out at a restaurant. She'd left her abusive boyfriend years ago. In fact, she was single at the time.

I don't know what I said, if anything I said sparked it, but for some reason she suddenly began to cry. "Back when I had a chance with you, I blew it", she said.

So, we left that public place and went back to my apartment. There she started talking. She told me how she'd never understood me. Was always confused by me. And then, tragically, she told how much she felt she'd wasted her life by being attracted to guys who hadn't treated her right.

At some point that evening she mentioned something that really surprised me. She said she hadn't recognized that I had boundaries that I would "religiously enforce" because my boundaries were new to her. People she knew drew their boundaries differently.

That got me thinking: Abusers and abused people probably often do have different boundaries than those I myself am accustomed to.

A sad detail, perhaps, was the fact that she'd never really had a chance with me. I knew full well all those years that she didn't appreciate me. And I wasn't fool enough that I would have allowed myself a serious relationship with her. But I told her none of that.

So, does any of that illustrate to you how someone who has been abused might have problems understanding nice guys?

She left town soon afterwards. I hope she's doing well.

Do you like genuinely nice guys?

Not sexually, but offline I simply will not tolerate anyone who isn't nice to get anywhere close to me. Doesn't mean I won't take their money though.

 

[Sunstone]

I prefer too honest to too nice any day of the week.

Do you think your average nice guy isn't honest? Or just the "too nice" ones?

 

[Me Myself]

Do you think your average nice guy isn't honest? Or just the "too nice" ones?

I think many times "nice" and "honest" compete.

I think being honest to someone, no matter how hurtful it might be can be one of the nicest and most important things you can do to such person.

I cant imagine an "avarage" "nice guy", so sorry for that

One of the important things there would know the person who is describing him as nice and the context on which s/he is saying so. Often it follows up by me questioning "how so?"

 

[Me Myself]

I think the person generally considered as nice wil deliberately conceal any "non nice" opinions about most matters s/he may have. I would assume generally out of an honest desire not to hurt people.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the person generally considered as nice wil deliberately conceal any "non nice" opinions about most matters s/he may have. I would assume generally out of an honest desire not to hurt people.

I think you're too suspicious of nice people. My best friend is one of the nicest men I've known. He's also one of the most genuinely honest people I've known. But he's much older than you. I've read men in their 50s and beyond have typically learned how to treat others kindly while still getting what they want, while younger men are still relatively klutzes when it comes those skills. I believe that's been my experience, too. When I was younger, I was a real dick getting what I wanted.

 

[Revoltingest]

For Titanic....
[youtube]unA6iD7u_sk[/youtube]
Family Guy- Jilian And Hitler - YouTube

 

[Me Myself]

I think you're too suspicious of nice people. My best friend is one of the nicest men I've known. He's also one of the most genuinely honest people I've known. But he's much older than you. I've read men in their 50s and beyond have typically learned how to treat others kindly while still getting what they want, while younger men are still relatively klutzes when it comes those skills. I believe that's been my experience, too. When I was younger, I was a real dick getting what I wanted.

I have never thought treating people kindly is an impediment to getting what you want. It is generally a good way of getting things the way you want.

Its not so much about me being suspicious towards kind people as me being suspicious about perception of niceness.

I remember also from when I was a kid I was in a class where art of an assignment (the least important part) was to color some stuff before giving it to teacher. The colors were for a baby, I colored mine inside the lins with appropiate colors.

Someone was going sit by sit asking "do you like mine?" almost everyone said "yeah" then he said he liked the other person's too. When he came to mine I saw his and I didnt like it. As abstract awesome as it may have been to others, the non realistic look and just lets paint it however didnt matchmy tastes so I said without spite and in full honesty "no, not really". I asked then "do you like mine?" the face of him turned to spite and said "no" almost without a look. He just looked it for less than a secnd because I pointed at it and his eyes naturally fllowed my fingers. It wasn an honest claim, it was "revenge" . I didnt really care or felt affected by his claim, but to this day I remember the incident as a sample of something that I keep seeing a lot in all kinds of situations with all kinds of people.

It's just very curious. As an advertiser, I do understand how it works, and the usefullness of "niceness" but it still puzzles me.

Also you might havenoticed I use this "" and it is not arbitrary. I honestly believe that nice people with enought vision and genuine care for other's experience might be honest in situations where "nice" people wouldnt at all.

 

[Sunstone]

I honestly believe that nice people with enought vision and genuine care for other's experience might be honest in situations where "nice" people wouldnt at all.

Thanks for the clarification! I think I understand now.

 

[Me Myself]

Thanks for the clarification! I think I understand now.

Cool

 

[Poeticus]

So, does any of that illustrate to you how someone who has been abused might have problems understanding nice guys?

Thanks for the long and detailed story. Yes, that does illustrate to me how an abused female might have problems understanding nice guys.


What about non-abused girls that don't like nice guys?

 

[Sunstone]

What about non-abused girls that don't like nice guys?

I don't know about specifically girls who don't like nice guys. But until I was in my 30s, I didn't much value nice girls. I was so attracted to intelligence that I didn't see the significance of, say, kindness.

So, maybe girls who don't like nice guys are sometimes girls who just don't see how important it might someday become to them to be treated kindly in a marriage or relationship.

 

[Poeticus]

I don't know about specifically girls who don't like nice guys. But until I was in my 30s, I didn't much value nice girls. I was so attracted to intelligence that I didn't see the significance of, say, kindness.

So, maybe girls who don't like nice guys are sometimes girls who just don't see how important it might someday become to them to be treated kindly in a marriage or relationship.

I heard that no matter how old a female gets, she will always have a thing for a naughty fella. Is this true?

 

[Sunstone]

What about non-abused girls that don't like nice guys?

Have you be rejected by any non-abused girls because you were nice to them?

 

[Revoltingest]

Intelligence....accept no substitute!

Moderator cut: image removed​

 

[Poeticus]

Have you be rejected by any non-abused girls because you were nice to them?

I don't know if they were non-abused. But, I have been rejected by many types of girls as well as accepted by many.

 

[Me Myself]

Thanks for the long and detailed story. Yes, that does illustrate to me how an abused female might have problems understanding nice guys.


What about non-abused girls that don't like nice guys?

I think it will probably have to do with which is their dichotomy.

Two I ve seen are:

direct vs nice (no, not just from me )

dominant vs nice (take in consideration dominant doesnt need to be jackbutt )


Also sometimes nice can be equated to "naive" or "doormat" .

Of course one can be nice and be wise and nice and be clear about boundaries, but this are associations and people will often speak from their associations of the words more than their actual meanings or what makes sense or is politically correct (each of those being different things more often than not)

 

[Poeticus]

Thanks for the answers, Sunstone and Me Myself.

 

[Me Myself]

I don't know about specifically girls who don't like nice guys. But until I was in my 30s, I didn't much value nice girls. I was so attracted to intelligence that I didn't see the significance of, say, kindness.

So, maybe girls who don't like nice guys are sometimes girls who just don't see how important it might someday become to them to be treated kindly in a marriage or relationship.

Good way of seeing it. I think you are probably right.

 

[Sunstone]

I heard that no matter how old a female gets, she will always have a thing for a naughty fella. Is this true?

Depends on what you mean by "naughty", I suppose. I can't speak for all women, but most of my female friends and acquaintances my age appreciate creative, witty, free spirits who are sexually open and honest with them.

Especially, it seems, if they feel those free spirits respect them as persons, cherish them as special,support their goals and dreams, and are considerate lovers both in and out of bed.

It also seems to help if you know who you are and are comfortable with yourself, have the confidence to assert yourself when appropriate, and like to sexually experiment.

I'm celibate, but I get compliments now and then from women my age, and most of what I just listed are the attributes they compliment on.

 

[Poeticus]

Depends on what you mean by "naughty", I suppose. I can't speak for all women, but most of my female friends and acquaintances my age appreciate creative, witty, free spirits who are sexually open and honest with them.

Especially, it seems, if they feel those free spirits respect them as persons, cherish them as special,support their goals and dreams, and are considerate lovers both in and out of bed.

It also seems to help if you know who you are and are comfortable with yourself, have the confidence to assert yourself when appropriate, and like to sexually experiment.

I'm celibate, but I get compliments now and then from women my age, and most of what I just listed are the attributes they compliment on.

I meant "bad boy". My b.