Intelligent Design is a Fact- Evolution is a Theory!

[Dante Writer]

Yes, you are far to interested in playing games.
Sad really, because you could have had a serious discussion on the subject.

You have never posted anything serious or of substance yet.

 

[Dante Writer]

A good question actually. How do you propose that your intelligent designer came into being?

If we could see that intelligent designer maybe we could ask them.

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Thought that might get your attention so before you rush to post your arguments read:

We have been designing organism for a long time through cross breeding and inbreeding species like dogs, horses, cats and any domesticated animals. It is is intelligent design not natural selection and is intended to produce an organism with specific traits.

We can now clone animals with no natural selection involved in the process to create a living organism.

We create genetically modified animals and plants in labs all the time and that food you eat today is probably a result of intelligent design that happened in a lab.

Intelligent design is not creationism. Intelligent design does not require a God or even a genius and has nothing to do with magic or super natural powers.

Intelligent design is the application of science to create living organism or modify genes and DNA to produce changes in organisms.

Intelligent Design is a Fact!

Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.

Personally, I have no faith in spontaneous generation or abiogenesis that says life can form from inorganic materials and without that faith the Theories of Evolution fall apart.

ADDED: we have a few trolls that do not want us to discuss Intelligent Design so they tried to hijack the discussion. Just ignore them please.

It's always worth reminding people, that ID is not simply skepticism of evolution, it has as a lot of positive supporting evidence ( direct, empirical, observable repeatable evidence as you note)

We can prove beyond reasonable doubt that biological design can be implemented, improved, guided by ID- and that it leaves a history much like the fossil record, where significant leaps in functionality tend to happen very abruptly, skipping undesirable/ dysfunctional intermediates. We know what the fingerprints of designed information systems look like, we can begin to calculate the astronomical odds against chance assembly of such systems

That's not to say it's impossible for the same to happen by pure blind chance... technically, and that we one day might prove this also... I wouldn't bet the farm on it though!

 

[Parsimony]

If we could see that intelligent designer maybe we could ask them.

What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer, though? Did it come about through an abiogenesis of its own, was it created by another intelligent designer, has it always existed or what? If you claim that the origin of life is a problem for evolution then the origin of the designer is a problem for intelligent design too.

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

More like "gradual" than "spontaneous", and I think it is possible but not yet proven.

 

[McBell]

You have never posted anything serious or of substance yet.

Says you.
But then all you have been presenting is bold empty claims.

Rather difficult to take you seriously.

 

[Dante Writer]

What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer, though? Did it come about through an abiogenesis of its own, was it created by another intelligent designer, has it always existed or what? If you claim that the origin of life is a problem for evolution then the origin of the designer is a problem for intelligent design too.

More like "gradual" than "spontaneous", and I think it is possible but not yet proven.

"What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer"

I believe in intelligent design and science and one science law seems to answer this question:

Energy can not be created or destroyed and all energy will eventually return to it's source.

When you break down life and all matter in the universe it is energy pure and simple.

So my answer is life was never created and is simply a reforming of that energy that has always and will always exist.

 

[Dante Writer]

It's always worth reminding people, that ID is not simply skepticism of evolution, it has as a lot of positive supporting evidence ( direct, empirical, observable repeatable evidence as you note)

We can prove beyond reasonable doubt that biological design can be implemented, improved, guided by ID- and that it leaves a history much like the fossil record, where significant leaps in functionality tend to happen very abruptly, skipping undesirable/ dysfunctional intermediates. We know what the fingerprints of designed information systems look like, we can begin to calculate the astronomical odds against chance assembly of such systems

That's not to say it's impossible for the same to happen by pure blind chance... technically, and that we one day might prove this also... I wouldn't bet the farm on it though!

Thank you for that well thought out response!

I was starting to think I was wasting my time in this forum- you give me hope!

 

[Parsimony]

"What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer"

I believe in intelligent design and science and one science law seems to answer this question:

Energy can not be created or destroyed and all energy will eventually return to it's source.

When you break down life and all matter in the universe it is energy pure and simple.

So my answer is life was never created and is simply a reforming of that energy that has always and will always exist.

Do you think that all energy is life or only specific energy? Is all energy capable of intelligently designing things? If not, what energy is?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Thank you for that well thought out response!

I was starting to think I was wasting my time in this forum- you give me hope!

I used to be one of those guys, who would refuse to even question my own belief in evolution, and I was extremely rude and patronizing to others that did.
I finally started looking deeper into the questions they had raised- and eventually changed my position, albeit many years later.

i.e. nobody I debated ever knew, that they were not completely wasting their time!

 

[Deathbydefault]

No- that is Creationism and to lump the two together is an immature trick to avoid the fact that Evolution does not address the origin of life.

There are other hypothesis for the origin of life, evolution does not address that at all, at most it alludes to it.
I'm not avoiding anything, do show me where I've done this, or how.

 

[David1967]

"designed by a higher pre-existing intelligence."

No- that is Creationism and to lump the two together is an immature trick to avoid the fact that Evolution does not address the origin of life.

I actually like this thread. Do you have a theory about the origin of life Dante? Do you subscribe to an alien God concept like Chariots of the Gods? I'm not making fun. Genuinely interested in your thoughts.

 

[Sapiens]

Yet I am the one with a proven factual method of creating life on a new planet while you are still holding a theory full of holes.

Somehow this claim I doubt. Please show us the planet you did it on and the unique life form that you created.

 

[Desert Snake]

Darn right they are. Medium rare, cheese, pickles, yes sir!

Not what I would order. That could be good, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought I'd stop back to see how this thread was progressing &.....oh....oh, my gawd!
There's broken glass, wrecked tables, dangling participles & pigeon feces everywhere!
I'm not sweeping up here until this is over.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why as it has no relevance?

Intelligent Design is not creationism as I made clear in my post.

This is true, but I'm going to disagree with you about the 'inference', that we would draw from the big question mark, in the equation. If we, pursue, that question mark, we have to consider Creationism. Off planet I.D., /or abiogenesis/, merely puts the problem 'off planet'', so to speak.
We don't have to guess at Creationism, but there is really no reason to avoid the issue, either. There are a couple other threads addressing this, in part, so I won't turn this thread into an off topic debate.

cheers

 

[George-ananda]

Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.

What do you think of my belief that there are nature spirits/beings that fostered abiogenesis and evolution and life on earth?

 

[Sapiens]

What do you think of my belief that there are nature spirits/beings that fostered abiogenesis and evolution and life on earth?

I ask you what fostered the genesis of those spirits, that fostered the genesis of that, that fostered the genesis of them ... etc. Ultimately the only way to break out of that tautology requires one of two approaches:

1. Acceptance of noninterventioned abiogensis, or
2. Belief that the universe has always been and is without a beginning, the same with life.

In either case lets take the simple answer and not complicate it with unrequited baggage, like indemonstrable and necessary spirits and such.

Why is having life supposedly created from from non-life that we cannot see nor find any evidence for be more logical than life supposedly created by a deity or deities?

Parsimony, that you praise so highly.

 

[George-ananda]

I ask you what fostered the genesis of those spirits, that fostered the genesis of that, that fostered the genesis of them ... etc. Ultimately the only way to break out of that tautology requires one of two approaches:

1. Acceptance of noninterventioned abiogensis, or
2. Belief that the universe has always been and is without a beginning, the same with life.

What about.

3. The universe is a production of the fundamental consciousness

In either case lets take the simple answer and not complicate it with unrequited baggage, like indemonstrable and necessary spirits and such.

I do take the simplest answer. No other simpler answers explain consciousness except by reducing it to materialism (which doesn't hold from the evidence I have seen).

 

[Sapiens]

What about.

3. The universe is a production of the fundamental consciousness

I do take the simplest answer. No other simpler answers explain consciousness except by reducing it to materialism (which doesn't hold from the evidence I have seen).

No. Consciousness is, by most definitions, a highly complex phenomena. Since we do not know the origin of everyting, Positing a fundamental consciousness has two issues:

1. You are swimming upstream against parsimony to make an argument from ignorance.
2. You are not identifying the origin of the fundamental consciousness, which, if you do will will trap you in a different parsimony destroying tautology.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Thought that might get your attention so before you rush to post your arguments read:

We have been designing organism for a long time through cross breeding and inbreeding species like dogs, horses, cats and any domesticated animals. It is is intelligent design not natural selection and is intended to produce an organism with specific traits.

We can now clone animals with no natural selection involved in the process to create a living organism.

We create genetically modified animals and plants in labs all the time and that food you eat today is probably a result of intelligent design that happened in a lab.

Intelligent design is not creationism. Intelligent design does not require a God or even a genius and has nothing to do with magic or super natural powers.

Intelligent design is the application of science to create living organism or modify genes and DNA to produce changes in organisms.

Intelligent Design is a Fact!

Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.

Personally, I have no faith in spontaneous generation or abiogenesis that says life can form from inorganic materials and without that faith the Theories of Evolution fall apart.

ADDED: we have a few trolls that do not want us to discuss Intelligent Design so they tried to hijack the discussion. Just ignore them please.

Intellegent design is in fact a fact. All of us are using electronic devices connected to a massive online web of information run across digital processes. All of which are intelligently designed.

What we don't have evidence of is intelligent design being used to start or shape life. Even the examples you gave of biologically enhanced evolution or artificially motivated evolution is still evolution. The "theory" of ID as presented in biological terms by creationists is utter nonsense. Its a hijacking of a word and perversion of logic.

Evolution is fact. We see it happen every day.