Dante Writer
Active Member
Yes, you are far to interested in playing games.
Sad really, because you could have had a serious discussion on the subject.
You have never posted anything serious or of substance yet.
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Yes, you are far to interested in playing games.
Sad really, because you could have had a serious discussion on the subject.
A good question actually. How do you propose that your intelligent designer came into being?
Thought that might get your attention so before you rush to post your arguments read:
We have been designing organism for a long time through cross breeding and inbreeding species like dogs, horses, cats and any domesticated animals. It is is intelligent design not natural selection and is intended to produce an organism with specific traits.
We can now clone animals with no natural selection involved in the process to create a living organism.
We create genetically modified animals and plants in labs all the time and that food you eat today is probably a result of intelligent design that happened in a lab.
Intelligent design is not creationism. Intelligent design does not require a God or even a genius and has nothing to do with magic or super natural powers.
Intelligent design is the application of science to create living organism or modify genes and DNA to produce changes in organisms.
Intelligent Design is a Fact!
Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.
Personally, I have no faith in spontaneous generation or abiogenesis that says life can form from inorganic materials and without that faith the Theories of Evolution fall apart.
ADDED: we have a few trolls that do not want us to discuss Intelligent Design so they tried to hijack the discussion. Just ignore them please.
What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer, though? Did it come about through an abiogenesis of its own, was it created by another intelligent designer, has it always existed or what? If you claim that the origin of life is a problem for evolution then the origin of the designer is a problem for intelligent design too.If we could see that intelligent designer maybe we could ask them.
More like "gradual" than "spontaneous", and I think it is possible but not yet proven.Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?
Says you.You have never posted anything serious or of substance yet.
What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer, though? Did it come about through an abiogenesis of its own, was it created by another intelligent designer, has it always existed or what? If you claim that the origin of life is a problem for evolution then the origin of the designer is a problem for intelligent design too.
More like "gradual" than "spontaneous", and I think it is possible but not yet proven.
It's always worth reminding people, that ID is not simply skepticism of evolution, it has as a lot of positive supporting evidence ( direct, empirical, observable repeatable evidence as you note)
We can prove beyond reasonable doubt that biological design can be implemented, improved, guided by ID- and that it leaves a history much like the fossil record, where significant leaps in functionality tend to happen very abruptly, skipping undesirable/ dysfunctional intermediates. We know what the fingerprints of designed information systems look like, we can begin to calculate the astronomical odds against chance assembly of such systems
That's not to say it's impossible for the same to happen by pure blind chance... technically, and that we one day might prove this also... I wouldn't bet the farm on it though!
Do you think that all energy is life or only specific energy? Is all energy capable of intelligently designing things? If not, what energy is?"What do you consider to be the most likely origin of the designer"
I believe in intelligent design and science and one science law seems to answer this question:
Energy can not be created or destroyed and all energy will eventually return to it's source.
When you break down life and all matter in the universe it is energy pure and simple.
So my answer is life was never created and is simply a reforming of that energy that has always and will always exist.
Thank you for that well thought out response!
I was starting to think I was wasting my time in this forum- you give me hope!
No- that is Creationism and to lump the two together is an immature trick to avoid the fact that Evolution does not address the origin of life.
"designed by a higher pre-existing intelligence."
No- that is Creationism and to lump the two together is an immature trick to avoid the fact that Evolution does not address the origin of life.
Somehow this claim I doubt. Please show us the planet you did it on and the unique life form that you created.Yet I am the one with a proven factual method of creating life on a new planet while you are still holding a theory full of holes.
Darn right they are. Medium rare, cheese, pickles, yes sir!
Why as it has no relevance?
Intelligent Design is not creationism as I made clear in my post.
What do you think of my belief that there are nature spirits/beings that fostered abiogenesis and evolution and life on earth?Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.
I ask you what fostered the genesis of those spirits, that fostered the genesis of that, that fostered the genesis of them ... etc. Ultimately the only way to break out of that tautology requires one of two approaches:What do you think of my belief that there are nature spirits/beings that fostered abiogenesis and evolution and life on earth?
Parsimony, that you praise so highly.Why is having life supposedly created from from non-life that we cannot see nor find any evidence for be more logical than life supposedly created by a deity or deities?
What about.I ask you what fostered the genesis of those spirits, that fostered the genesis of that, that fostered the genesis of them ... etc. Ultimately the only way to break out of that tautology requires one of two approaches:
1. Acceptance of noninterventioned abiogensis, or
2. Belief that the universe has always been and is without a beginning, the same with life.
I do take the simplest answer. No other simpler answers explain consciousness except by reducing it to materialism (which doesn't hold from the evidence I have seen).In either case lets take the simple answer and not complicate it with unrequited baggage, like indemonstrable and necessary spirits and such.
No. Consciousness is, by most definitions, a highly complex phenomena. Since we do not know the origin of everyting, Positing a fundamental consciousness has two issues:What about.
3. The universe is a production of the fundamental consciousness
I do take the simplest answer. No other simpler answers explain consciousness except by reducing it to materialism (which doesn't hold from the evidence I have seen).
Intellegent design is in fact a fact. All of us are using electronic devices connected to a massive online web of information run across digital processes. All of which are intelligently designed.Thought that might get your attention so before you rush to post your arguments read:
We have been designing organism for a long time through cross breeding and inbreeding species like dogs, horses, cats and any domesticated animals. It is is intelligent design not natural selection and is intended to produce an organism with specific traits.
We can now clone animals with no natural selection involved in the process to create a living organism.
We create genetically modified animals and plants in labs all the time and that food you eat today is probably a result of intelligent design that happened in a lab.
Intelligent design is not creationism. Intelligent design does not require a God or even a genius and has nothing to do with magic or super natural powers.
Intelligent design is the application of science to create living organism or modify genes and DNA to produce changes in organisms.
Intelligent Design is a Fact!
Now that we have established that ID is a fact we can start looking at how that may be the mechanism that started life on this planet.
Personally, I have no faith in spontaneous generation or abiogenesis that says life can form from inorganic materials and without that faith the Theories of Evolution fall apart.
ADDED: we have a few trolls that do not want us to discuss Intelligent Design so they tried to hijack the discussion. Just ignore them please.