Intelligent Design...........?

[Enoch07]

Twist words?? How am I doing that???? The Bible is crystal clear about cosmology. The earth has four corners. The sun moves around the earth. It's all in the Bible. Haven't you read it?

That is point of view. Can we agree that in the very least some parts of the bible was written by man? Ok with that established, if you was inspired by a vision to right this would it not seem like the sun moves around the earth? That the earth was flat? I mean if you did not have knowledge of our solar system and someone asked you just based on what you saw standing from house. One of the logical answers would be yes the earth is the center because from our point of view it appears everything moves around us. We both know that isnt true though as modern men/women.

 

[Tristesse]

The problem is that the "theory" of Evolution is always changing. The History channel has great documentaries on the beginning of the universe. Off the top of my head I can recall atleast 4 different theories on how scientist believe the universe was created. How can you say that is is repeatedly verified when scientist can not even agree on a single theory?

yeah, the problem is your not talking about evolution anymore. Evolution has nothing to say on the beginning of the cosmos, I suggest you read science book.

 

[Enoch07]

You are confusing Evolution and Cosmology. Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with how the universe began. Evolution explains the diversity of life on earth.

It appears you had that "don't learn about evolution" option in your school.....

No because in Evolution it is taught that we all came from micro organisms from the sea etc etc etc. Hence God is left out, ID teaches that some form of Intelligence (however you want to describe it) created the life. In order to teach ID you have to include the universe as well ( atleast for Christianities view of it). That is why I included it.

 

[Storm]

No because in Evolution it is taught that we all came from micro organisms from the sea etc etc etc. Hence God is left out,

Not necessarily. You never heard of theistic evolution? Being Christian doesn't require rejecting science.

 

[Beaudreaux]

That is point of view. Can we agree that in the very least some parts of the bible was written by man? Ok with that established, if you was inspired by a vision to right this would it not seem like the sun moves around the earth? That the earth was flat? I mean if you did not have knowledge of our solar system and someone asked you just based on what you saw standing from house. One of the logical answers would be yes the earth is the center because from our point of view it appears everything moves around us. We both know that isnt true though as modern men/women.

I would agree with that, yes. Would you also agree that the Book of Genesis was written by men who did not have knowldege of genetics and inherited traits? Who did not have knowledge of the evidence for common ancestry and survival of the fittest. Who, without knowledge of the workings of evolution, thought that everything must have just been poofed into existence?

 

[fantome profane]

Not asking that they teach it as science. Just let the credits count the same for diplomas. Most people will never need to know how cells divide in everyday life. Most people live and work in the everyday world where science has little to no meaning.

That is just like saying that you think people should be able to graduate without taking a science requirement. Is that what you are saying? Do you not think a basic understanding of science is important? You could also let basket-weaving count the same as a history credit, but it is not a good idea.

To some Evolution is a joke and ID makes perfect sense.

And these would be people who don’t have a basic understanding of science. This is what you seem to want. The more people who lack a basic understanding of science the more people you will have thinking that I.D. is science

Ofcourse science is useful. There is no denying that. But only the brightest of children know they want to be a doctor at age 15. So they will almost always chose to take biology etc and prolly skip over ID. But for the other 99% of the people in the world that knowledge is just not very useful. Why not give them the option to learn something they can use, if only in their personal lives?

You have suggested that science should only be taught to the brightest students, and the more dim students should be allowed to take I.D. This does not speak well of I.D. does it?

 

[Beaudreaux]

No because in Evolution it is taught that we all came from micro organisms from the sea etc etc etc. Hence God is left out, ID teaches that some form of Intelligence (however you want to describe it) created the life. In order to teach ID you have to include the universe as well ( atleast for Christianities view of it). That is why I included it.

But you included it as an attack on Evolution. You argued that, since scientists are always revising their theory of how the universe began that Evolution is a constantly changing theory. But Evolution does not deal with the formation of the universe. In fact, of all of the scientific theories proposed in the last 300 years, Evolution is the ONLY one that has remained unchanged in its basic premises. Our understanding of Genetics could have proved the theory of Evolution wrong, but it did not. It confirmed it. Darwin proposed that species pass traits to their offspring before we understood genetics. When we did understand genetics, we saw that Darwin was right!

 

[Enoch07]

But you included it as an attack on Evolution. You argued that, since scientists are always revising their theory of how the universe began that Evolution is a constantly changing theory. But Evolution does not deal with the formation of the universe. In fact, of all of the scientific theories proposed in the last 300 years, Evolution is the ONLY one that has remained unchanged in its basic premises. Our understanding of Genetics could have proved the theory of Evolution wrong, but it did not. It confirmed it. Darwin proposed that species pass traits to their offspring before we understood genetics. When we did understand genetics, we saw that Darwin was right!

So by your own words our thoughts on Evolution have not evolved in the past 300 years?

 

[Tristesse]

So by your own words our thoughts on Evolution have not evolved in the past 300 years?

The theory of evolution hasn't been around for 300 years. More like 250.

 

[Enoch07]

I would agree with that, yes. Would you also agree that the Book of Genesis was written by men who did not have knowldege of genetics and inherited traits? Who did not have knowledge of the evidence for common ancestry and survival of the fittest. Who, without knowledge of the workings of evolution, thought that everything must have just been poofed into existence?

I agree to some extent. But it boils down to divine inspiration and faith as far just about anything out of the Bible.

 

[Beaudreaux]

So by your own words our thoughts on Evolution have not evolved in the past 300 years?

The basic principle have held true. Yes.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

I’ll take a stab at this but you guys have probably done as much as can be done.

First you must understand that ToE does NOT “leave god out.” Darwin didn’t “leave god out.” He imagined a creator and said as much in Origins. A fact you be familiar with if you had ever actually READ Origins. What ToE leaves out a 6,000 yr old earth. And EVERYTHING we learned from every science in the past 150 years points to very OLD earth. WAY past 6,000 yrs.

The evidence for ToE just keeps coming. And it does what ID can’t do and doesn’t even claim to do. It predicts things. And it is correct. And I can give you a really telling example if you are interested.

ID isn’t science. And you can prove this very easily. Site the articles written by ID scientists that contain evidence and examples that have been submitted for per review and accepted for publication. Name any. Any one at all.

Name any ID prediction made. Any one at all. Just name it.

There are none. No body of knowledge so empty of verified content can be worth teaching. To anyone.

 

[Enoch07]

I’ll take a stab at this but you guys have probably done as much as can be done.

First you must understand that ToE does NOT “leave god out.” Darwin didn’t “leave god out.” He imagined a creator and said as much in Origins. A fact you be familiar with if you had ever actually READ Origins. What ToE leaves out a 6,000 yr old earth. And EVERYTHING we learned from every science in the past 150 years points to very OLD earth. WAY past 6,000 yrs.

The evidence for ToE just keeps coming. And it does what ID can’t do and doesn’t even claim to do. It predicts things. And it is correct. And I can give you a really telling example if you are interested.

ID isn’t science. And you can prove this very easily. Site the articles written by ID scientists that contain evidence and examples that have been submitted for per review and accepted for publication. Name any. Any one at all.

Name any ID prediction made. Any one at all. Just name it.

There are none. No body of knowledge so empty of verified content can be worth teaching. To anyone.

I agree with you to some extent. But what if we only taught creationism (ID) whatever you wanna call it. Would you not want your child to have another option to learn about the world? I would even as a Christian.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Are you not doing the same by allowing only Evolutionism to be taught?

Yes.

We are using public education to recruit our youth into the worldview that believes that knowledge is good, and is very much preferable to mythologically based superstition.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

As has been pointed out before. You want to learn religion - go to Church.

But public schools have no business teaching religion. And no matter how you twist you can't get out of it. ID is religion, a very specific denomination of a very specific religion.

I bet you would be upset if a science teacher taught kids that god had no son.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... If you are so confident of your science ...

... and there we have it. Your choice (and use) of the phrase "your science" tells us everything we need to know about your mindset.

I hope you don't listen to doctors. They have been using "our science" for decades now. I hope you have the strength of your convictions, and only consult with witch doctors when you are taken ill.

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Storm]

As has been pointed out before. You want to learn religion - go to Church.

But public schools have no business teaching religion. And no matter how you twist you can't get out of it. ID is religion, a very specific denomination of a very specific religion.

I disagree. I think the lack of religious studies courses in schools is detrimental, and support their inclusion. Of course, it's not my top priotity on the topic of education reform. Anyway, there's a difference between education and indoctrination.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I believe what I understand thus far about the bible, but that doesnt stop someone from trying to twist its words to meet their own purposes. I do not pretend to know every word and what exactly every word means. No man can do that.

So, are we supposed to wait for your interpretation of each passage?

If you are going to speak for God, I guess the rest of us will just have to wait for you to get the insight.

I am so glad you are around, to lead us from the darkness.

 

[Enoch07]

I bet you would be upset if a science teacher taught kids that god had no son.

Wouldn't upset me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I only have a problem when people try to force their opinion as the only option. Like most of you have done so far.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Wouldn't upset me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I only have a problem when people try to force their opinion as the only option. Like most of you have done so far.

Don't you just wish this country could be a theocracy?

Think of all of the souls you could save, if you just had the law behind you, helping to force everyone to see God as you do ...

Oh well - our loss.