Interesting Quotes from Presidents and Founding Fathers

[Kenny]

1892? I believe Supreme Court decisions since this have reinforced the separation of church and state, and rejected the concept that the United States has a state religion.

The different religions and cultures represented on the Supreme Court building are a witness to this.

I don't think so. Today's separation is a modern separation. Maybe that is what is exasperating our country? You know, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is now not welcomed because it is a Christian statement?

1892 would understand the intent of 1776 better than "Take out prayers from schools" interpretation.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't think so. Today's separation is a modern separation. Maybe that is what is exasperating our country? You know, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is now not welcomed because it is a Christian statement?

1892 would understand the intent of 1776 better than "Take out prayers from schools" interpretation.

The expression "Love your neighbor as yourself" is basically found in all the religions and cultures of the world. By the way so is the commandment against 'wrongful death.'

 

[Kenny]

The expression "Love your neighbor as yourself" is basically found in all the religions and cultures of the world. By the way so is the commandment against 'wrongful death.'

Yes.. but remember, the NEW separation of church and state... so doens't my statement still stand?

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes.. but remember, the NEW separation of church and state... so doens't my statement still stand?

No.

 

[Revoltingest]

I went to religious schools for 12 years.
But I don't remember them feeling the need to emphasize that commandment. Nobody ever said, "Hey kids, don't forget that God doesn't want you to commit murder!"
Tom

I like graven images though.

 

[columbus]

I like graven images though.

Is that similar to bacon jpegs?
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Is that similar to bacon jpegs?
Tom

Sure why not.

 

[Kenny]

No.

I think it does.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think it does.

The validity of specific citations you make are ok, sometimes, sometimes problematic, but as with most of your arguments your citations are selectively incomplete and often misleading to justify and agenda.

Your use of crime statistics was highly incomplete and misleading, and your initial citation in this thread is a corrupted citation.

 

[Kenny]

I went to religious schools for 12 years.
But I don't remember them feeling the need to emphasize that commandment. Nobody ever said, "Hey kids, don't forget that God doesn't want you to commit murder!"
Tom

Yet it was posted and the eyes sees. Why else do they put advertisments on the road?

 

[shunyadragon]

Yet it was posted and the eyes sees. Why else do they put advertisments on the road?

Promoting a religious agenda.

 

[columbus]

Yet it was posted and the eyes sees. Why else do they put advertisments on the road?

To sell you stuff, usually stuff you don't need.

I learned morality the same way everyone else does, from the people around me. Mainly my parents.
Tom

 

[Sunstone]

Yet it was posted and the eyes sees. Why else do they put advertisments on the road?

Can you actually be suggesting that people would murder each other significantly more than they already do if the Bible didn't tell them not too? If so, that's fascinating! Why would you think that?

 

[David T]

Dr. Benjamin Rush - Signer of Declaration of Independence.:

By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime.

Maybe there is truth to his statement.

odd assumption that church understands the bible.

So speaking of cherry picking I say we should have muskets they were the weapon of the constitution but rabid godless evolutionists have insisted on modern semi automatic weapons. Heathen.

 

[Kenny]

And the Quran? And the Vedas? And the suttas?

Take peoples faith, there'd be crimes. Take their scripture, you'd know where they place their devotion. Its a sad truth because Id think if we took god out of school (take peoples faith away) there'd be crime.

True...true

But take away bible??

Think jesus disciples said jesus's words: people look to scripture as if It holds eternal life; but, even It speaks of christ.

Basically jesus says: "dude! Im over here, man. Why you reading about the author?" he points away from himself and rolls his eyes and looks away from himself, "he's right infront of you."

39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

Yes... but please look below

Id think there is truth to crimes if they took away jesus not the bible. Isnt there a difference??

I don't think so. Jesus said "Scriptures point to me". As you said, "I am right in front of you". But he wasn't saying scriptures weren't necessary for how would they know that it pointed to Him?

I don't think it is any different now. How would we know what Jesus said if we didn't have the scriptures to tell us? They are his words, so isn't what he said just as important as to who he is?

 

[shunyadragon]

But take away bible??

Think jesus disciples said jesus's words: people look to scripture as if It holds eternal life; but, even It speaks of christ.

Basically jesus says: "dude! Im over here, man. Why you reading about the author?" he points away from himself and rolls his eyes and looks away from himself, "he's right infront of you."

39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

Yes... but please look below


I don't think so. Jesus said "Scriptures point to me". As you said, "I am right in front of you". But he wasn't saying scriptures weren't necessary for how would they know that it pointed to Him?

I don't think it is any different now. How would we know what Jesus said if we didn't have the scriptures to tell us? They are his words, so isn't what he said just as important as to who he is?

Unfortunately too many people interpret what he said and did different.

The Biblical spiritual law is incomplete, because for example it did not completely condemn slavery as immoral, neither did the Torah nor the Quran.

There are more complete morals and ethics standards available today than in the Bible. Even the Humanist Manifesto is more contemporary and complete than the Bible concerning morals and ethics, and a basis for law.

I believe the Founding Fathers realized this and the majority supported the separation of church and state in one form or another even strongly believing Christians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nice convo.

I don't think so. Jesus said "Scriptures point to me". As you said, "I am right in front of you". But he wasn't saying scriptures weren't necessary for how would they know that it pointed to Him

I see scriptures as secondary to christ himself. The Word in scripture speaks of is jesus not scripture. Jesus speaks of god.

So whatever you get through jesus, through him is the "Word of God" [not jesus and not the bible]. I think his apostles were clear that a christian follows god through christ not the bible.

I dont see the bible equal to jesus. If you dont know jesus directly, the bible (rather than jesus) acts as a go-between. Thr only go-between is jesus/god's Words/his verbal dictations to his people not written words, which is a rescource and "record" of What jesus said; not to be confused at seeing god's verbal dictations through his Word (jesus) rather than inspired apostles dictating the his words.

I understand the imporance of the bible but not so far as to place equal importance to the god's Word (oral dictation through christ) itself. (Assuming I am christian to keep to my point)

I don't think it is any different now. How would we know what Jesus said if we didn't have the scriptures to tell us? They are his words, so isn't what he said just as important as to who he is?

The holy spirit.

Side note: thats why I like litergical christian churches. They place devotion and communication within the body of christ and his spirit before the words about him.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God's words his his oral dications spoken through his Word/christ (play on words: words vs. Word)

The bible is the written testimonies and records of what jesus said about his father through himself. The inspired nature of the apostles is the same you recieve (same as the pagans at the pentecoast who became christian). The bible has no timeline in its message (God's Words). The Church put the christian bible later adding the torah to keep the continuation and history link between christ and roman view of christianity. The bible is a compliation of many thoughts doing that time period.

words change by culture and era and people

The Word does not.

Knowing the difference is crucial. Especially, if one feels the holy spirit brings themselves to christ and thus to god not the bible

@KenS

 

[Kenny]

God's words his his oral dications spoken through his Word/christ (play on words: words vs. Word)

The bible is the written testimonies and records of what jesus said about his father through himself. The inspired nature of the apostles is the same you recieve (same as the pagans at the pentecoast who became christian). The bible has no timeline in its message (God's Words). The Church put the christian bible later adding the torah to keep the continuation and history link between christ and roman view of christianity. The bible is a compliation of many thoughts doing that time period.

words change by culture and era and people

The Word does not.

Knowing the difference is crucial. Especially, if one feels the holy spirit brings themselves to christ and thus to god not the bible

@KenS

I understand your point... yet if we are to test the spirits, it is still the word of God that is the plumbline. Certainly the relationship is first, but the reality is that it is still the preaching of God's word that is the power of salvation. They still remain inseparable.

 

[Kenny]

The validity of specific citations you make are ok, sometimes, sometimes problematic, but as with most of your arguments your citations are selectively incomplete and often misleading to justify and agenda.

Your use of crime statistics was highly incomplete and misleading, and your initial citation in this thread is a corrupted citation.

I appreciate your veiwpoints... but just making statements doesn't make it convincing.