Interview with a Feminist

[Akivah]

I think anybody taking maternity or paternity leave ought to have the same employment rights as the Soldiers and Sailors Act that protects our armed forces when being gone for tours of duty for extended periods of time.

I agree, people that take leave of absence for any approved reason (e.g. military duty or pregnancy) should have the right to return to their jobs when they come back. However, they do not and should not have the exact same rate of pay as someone that continued working that entire time. That would be totally unfair to the people that worked continuously.

 

[Drolefille]

I agree, people that take leave of absence for any approved reason (e.g. military duty or pregnancy) should have the right to return to their jobs when they come back. However, they do not and should not have the exact same rate of pay as someone that continued working that entire time. That would be totally unfair to the people that worked continuously.

I think there's a difference between "Fair" and "Equal." I think that while it may be entirely unequal it might actually be fair. But I don't want to derail Mystic's thread.

 

[Akivah]

And the wage gap isn't "so-called". It's in existence. Look it up on the Department of Labor website.

I did look it up. It is not all due to gender differences, but to a variety of causes.
The DOL study concluded "There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap." The differences include education choices, types of positions held, work experience, breaks in employments, number of weekly hours worked, and salary negotiations.

 

[Akivah]

I think there's a difference between "Fair" and "Equal." I think that while it may be entirely unequal it might actually be fair. But I don't want to derail Mystic's thread.

How would propose measuring it? Many businesses give pay raises based on a person's performance. How do you measure the performance of someone that wasn't there?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I did look it up. It is not all due to gender differences, but to a variety of causes.
The DOL study concluded "There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap." The differences include education choices, types of positions held, work experience, breaks in employments, number of weekly hours worked, and salary negotiations.

If gender differences are any factor at all, I think they must be addressed.

Please do not turn this into a debate thread. This is not the purpose. It is an interview thread where I am open to questions regarding my personal views in regards to feminism.

If you would like to hash out the specifics of the gender gap, please open a thread elsewhere or revive one of the wage gap threads in existence already.

 

[Akivah]

Please do not turn this into a debate thread. This is not the purpose. It is an interview thread where I am open to questions regarding my personal views in regards to feminism.

Fair enough. I'll try to stay in bounds. I have more questions to post later.

 

[Riverwolf]

Don't you think that it contradicts with their femininity (masculine is the opposite of feminine after all) and present them differently?

Masculinity and femininity are not limited to men or women, respectively. I'm biologically male and just barely cis, but am far, far more feminine than masculine.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Masculinity and femininity are not limited to men or women, respectively. I'm biologically male and just barely cis, but am far, far more feminine than masculine.

And I respect that. Thank you for the heads up

 

[Riverwolf]

And I respect that. Thank you for the heads up

No prob. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you think, @MysticSang'ha, that the concepts of "masculine" and "feminine", as applied to various behaviors, dispositions, and yin/yang opposites, might be outdated and to be discarded from our vernacular?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Do you think, in your view of feminism, that it is okay for the male police to treat suspect women the exact same way they treat suspect men? I mean things like using submissive force against rough resistance, touching the body thoroughly looking for concealed weapons... etc?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Do you think, @MysticSang'ha, that the concepts of "masculine" and "feminine", as applied to various behaviors, dispositions, and yin/yang opposites, might be outdated and to be discarded from our vernacular?

I think the equating gender, gender roles, and sex as all synonymous is outdated. For now, though, it's useful to have the polarities of a spectrum recognizable for our culture as long as the spectrum itself is used in validating a persons identity.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Do you think, in your view of feminism, that it is okay for the male police to treat suspect women the exact same way they treat suspect men? I mean things like using submissive force against rough resistance, touching the body thoroughly looking for concealed weapons... etc?

Gender should not determine how a citizen should be treated by law enforcement. Neither men nor women should be sexually assaulted, battered, or unlawfully searched or detained.

There exists a statute of female officers patting down female suspects, but that becomes problematic since that requirement erases the notion and threat of female predators from our cultural lexicon. We think only male predators exist and female targets exist as a result.

While we should determine risk analysis based on the numbers and percentages of male and female perpetrators, and act accordingly, blanket rules based on state standards leads to a coercive and sexist procedure backed by tax dollars and threat of force.

I really really don't like that.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Gender should not determine how a citizen should be treated by law enforcement. Neither men nor women should be sexually assaulted, battered, or unlawfully searched or detained.

There exists a statute of female officers patting down female suspects, but that becomes problematic since that requirement erases the notion and threat of female predators from our cultural lexicon. We think only male predators exist and female targets exist as a result.

While we should determine risk analysis based on the numbers and percentages of male and female perpetrators, and act accordingly, blanket rules based on state standards leads to a coercive and sexist procedure backed by tax dollars and threat of force.

I really really don't like that.

Wait, you misunderstood me. I meant under real law offending or public security risk conditions for example.

Something like (a case scenario) if someone had a hand gun and threatened to kill but the police managed to capture them and disarm them from that gun.

The police is suppose to search the suspect for other weapons in an attempt to assure safety as much as possible. Searching for concealed weapons require reaching some places of the body as regulations by the police.

That as well as if the suspect of this dangerous crime resisted the arrest/tried to escape and the police used physical force to stop them as needed and it could be really physical.

If the police happened to be a man and the suspect another man, we understand the situation here, but if it was a women, do you see it is okay to treat her the same way?

I, knowing that justice does not distinguish between genders, still don't like it if the woman is treated equally in such situation. If submission at some point required the police to kick the suspect with no alternative counter act, then I would understand if it happens to a male suspect, but I'm against it to a female suspect. What do you think about it?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Wait, you misunderstood me. I meant under real law offending or public security risk conditions for example.

Something like (a case scenario) if someone had a hand gun and threatened to kill but the police managed to capture them and disarm them from that gun.

The police is suppose to search the suspect for other weapons in an attempt to assure safety as much as possible. Searching for concealed weapons require reaching some places of the body as regulations by the police.

That as well as if the suspect of this dangerous crime resisted the arrest/tried to escape and the police used physical force to stop them as needed and it could be really physical.

If the police happened to be a man and the suspect another man, we understand the situation here, but if it was a women, do you see it is okay to treat her the same way?

I, knowing that justice does not distinguish between genders, still don't like it if the woman is treated equally in such situation. If submission at some point required the police to kick the suspect with no alternative counter act, then I would understand if it happens to a male suspect, but I'm against it to a female suspect. What do you think about it?

No, I didn't misunderstand you. I don't think gender should determine how a suspect is treated or mistreated by police. Why should men be abused if arrest and detainment can be applied without that kind of battery?

It's rather like how I feel about selective service. Our three sons have been required to sign up for it, but our daughter is not required. My sons are not any more disposable than my daughter, and I despise the notion...and especially through state enforcement...that they are.

So, do I want to see female suspects kicked, thrown, battered? Not at all. But cripes, male suspects should not be treated as such either.

 

[Smart_Guy]

No, I didn't misunderstand you. I don't think gender should determine how a suspect is treated or mistreated by police. Why should men be abused if arrest and detainment can be applied without that kind of battery?

It's rather like how I feel about selective service. Our three sons have been required to sign up for it, but our daughter is not required. My sons are not any more disposable than my daughter, and I despise the notion...and especially through state enforcement...that they are.

So, do I want to see female suspects kicked, thrown, battered? Not at all. But cripes, male suspects should not be treated as such either.

I'm not saying abusing or kicking the suspect for no reason. I mean, I would kick a man if he had a gun aimed to my head to save my own rear but I personally would think twice and thrice before I do that to a woman in his place. In worst case scenario, I could even cause my own death looking for other ways to get out of this trouble.

Anyways, maybe I'm just trolling here just to talk to you

 

[Smart_Guy]

Okay, here's another tro... I mean, question.

Here in my community men always give women priority in public places/services. At stores men let women cut in line, at ATM's, slow down cars miles away for them to pass, ignore offenses of other rude drivers if they have women and children, don't talk back to rude women, women are allowed to get to family divisions alone but men can't, cashiers tend to women first if there is a dividing wall for men and women... etc.

How does that go under your feminist views?

Sorry for asking so much questions. Feminism is new to me and I'm interested.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Okay, here's another tro... I mean, question.

Here in my community men always give women priority in public places/services. At stores men let women cut in line, at ATM's, slow down cars miles away for them to pass, ignore offenses of other rude drivers if they have women and children, don't talk back to rude women, women are allowed to get to family divisions alone but men can't, cashiers tend to women first if there is a dividing wall for men and women... etc.

How does that go under your feminist views?

I find those cultural practices to be highly paternalistic. They infantilize women and treat us as if we are little immature children who don't know any better.

Sorry for asking so much questions. Feminism is new to me and I'm interested.

No worries. I only speak for myself as a feminist, since there are so many varieties of the movement and philosophy.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I find those cultural practices to be highly paternalistic. They infantilize women and treat us as if we are little immature children who don't know any better.

I guess the intention is what matters. this act here is considered respect by both genders, not a look down. You know, like respecting old people and help them pass the street in the west, and old people are the complete opposite of children and immature. Even if I, a man, was treated like that by other men, I thank them and feel good about it. More than once when I did those, the women thanked me and it made me feel good for doing something I thought was good and got appreciated for it. Besides, the west is who first said "ladies first"

I'm not saying this as a debate, I'm saying it to clarify it is something all of us here consider good, even women.

No worries. I only speak for myself as a feminist, since there are so many varieties of the movement and philosophy.

Again, thank you for your cooperation ma'am

 

[Akivah]

What do you think about the practice of men paying for entertainment expenses for women when dating?