Is anti-theocracy considered a "far right" position, e.g. the Netherlands

[Jayhawker Soule]

Many Muslims in Europe want Sharia law. Sharia law represents a big step towards theocracy.
... So does that mean that being against theocracy is now a "far right" stance?

No.​

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes. And it's a stupid policy as well.

The topic here is theocracy, by the way.
Nobody wants any theocracy of any kind.
Imagine a Christian theocracy. Homosexuals punished and jailed, as it happened in Victorian Britain.

 

[PureX]

The topic here is theocracy, by the way.
Nobody wants any theocracy of any kind.
Imagine a Christian theocracy. Homosexuals punished and jailed, as it happened in Victorian Britain.

Apparently there are a lot of people that do want theocracy. It's why it's an issue.

I think the real problem is control. A significant number of humans want as much of it as they can get, over everything and everyone. And they are willing to interfere with the well being of everyone else to get it.

Humanity needs to learn to recognize these people and stop them from gaining the control they seek, because they will only use it to gain more, and more, and more. At the expense of everyone's well being. It's not really a religious issue, or even a political or economic one. It's a human nature issue that shows up in every aspect of human interaction.

 

[Estro Felino]

Apparently there are a lot of people that do want theocracy. It's why it's an issue.

I think the real problem is control. A significant number of humans want as much of it as they can get, over everything and everyone. And they are willing to interfere with the well being of everyone else to get it.

Humanity needs to learn to recognize these people and stop them from gaining the control they seek, because they will only use it to gain more, and more, and more. At the expense of everyone's well being. It's not really a religious issue, or even a political or economic one. It's a human nature issue that shows up in every aspect of human interaction.

Honestly I think that the most beautiful thing in the world is freedom of thought.
Freedom of expression. Freedom of choice.
All religions (none excluded) have always tried to limit such freedoms.

 

[PureX]

Honestly I think that the most beautiful thing in the world is freedom of thought.
Freedom of expression. Freedom of choice.
All religions (none excluded) have always tried to limit such freedoms.

With freedom comes the responsibility to respect and support each other, equally, or what we call freedom will be nothing more than the tyranny of the "free" over those they subjugate. Freedom within our society is not freedom from our society.

The "right" here in the US has completely lost sight of this.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because Brazil was colonized by Europeans...it's a fact.
Europeans that used to have a national identity...and such a thing is difficult to comprehend, in America. I understand.

National identities are poison.

 

[Bthoth]

I think 24-28% were in favor of becoming a strictly Christian nation.

Are those 24-28% the few that want a civil war?

Likewise, to be so strictly christian, could be the same kind of stupid that voted trump into office.

 

[icehorse]

Quick observation: the headline reads 'no place for Islamic culture'. It's not anti-theocratic as it is anti-Islamic.

I think it's hard to separate those two ideas. In other words, for hundreds of millions of Muslims, theocracy is a part of their culture.

 

[icehorse]

Anti-theocracy is a far right position when it is aimed, as it usually is, at Muslims.

A Christian theocracy is more than acceptable to the far right, which is why it is espoused by Bible Belt Protestant fundamentalists and mad, swivel-eyed Catholics.

I'm what Bill Maher calls a classic liberal, and I find the idea of theocracy abhorent - full stop. Whether it be Islamic or Christian or whatever. I do aim much of my concern at Islam. But remember, Islam is just ideas. Muslims can choose to leave Islam or reform it.

 

[icehorse]

However, since the 1970’s the rise of the Christian Right in the US and Islamic fundamentalism in the Middle East have grown and that’s what has led to the current weirdness where parts of the American and European left have been sympathetic to Islam on the grounds of anti-imperialism.

I agree that many in the Western left have become sympathetic to Islam. But I think it's because they have taken on board the simplistic "oppressed vs. oppressor" worldview, ugh.

That being said Islamic political parties in Europe have minimal levels of support, but the far right have turned fears over Muslim immigration and refugees into a powerful recruiting tool.

In many parts of Europe, Muslim immigrants have been causing an outsized amount of trouble, independent of having political parties.

 

[icehorse]

First rule of politics: politicians lie.
Wilders is, most of all, anti immigrant. He has no stance against theocracy but the fact that fresh immigrants often are pro sharia is a welcome argument against immigrants that can be supported by people less far right than he is. "Widening the base" is the goal and it worked.

Well we could just take his word that he is anti-immigrant BECAUSE of the ideas and values (like Sharia), that they bring with him.

Why would any country agree to accept immigrants whose values are opposed to their own?

 

[LuisDantas]

I agree that many in the Western left have become sympathetic to Islam. But I think it's because they have taken on board the simplistic "oppressed vs. oppressor" worldview, ugh.

I agree. Further, they have done so based on perceptions that are, at best, not well informed about Islam, its doctrine, and its history past and present.

 

[Bthoth]

Well we could just take his word that he is anti-immigrant BECAUSE of the ideas and values (like Sharia), that they bring with him.

That's a clean outlook.

Why would any country agree to accept immigrants whose values are opposed to their own?

My point exactly about the Middle east divide.

 

[icehorse]

The Crusades did not happen out of acceptance.

The Crusades were a minor, minor blip when seen in the context of the massive Islamic conquests of the period. Why do you think the Crusades are related?

 

[LuisDantas]

Well we could just take his word that he is anti-immigrant BECAUSE of the ideas and values (like Sharia), that they bring with him.

Why would any country agree to accept immigrants whose values are opposed to their own?

On paper, that could be a good, welcome, healthy thing.

It just happens that Islam has no place on such a plan.

 

[Bthoth]

On paper, that could be a good, welcome, healthy thing.

It just happens that Islam has no place on such a plan.

If you look at quran and an attempt to fulfill abrahamic prophecy, then it comes to light why it is so big. As both torah and bible claim a day when a single truth will unfold. But in quran there is a challenge, that if any can write a better book, then do it. You will not find that kind of humility in torah nor bible.

 

[icehorse]

It explains the apparent discrepancy that you were asking about.

I suspect the "journalists" who made the video, view the world thru the dangerous, far-left "oppressed vs oppressor" mindset, and so they see opposition to "oppressed" Muslims as being "far right". argh.

 

[exchemist]

I'm what Bill Maher calls a classic liberal, and I find the idea of theocracy abhorent - full stop. Whether it be Islamic or Christian or whatever. I do aim much of my concern at Islam. But remember, Islam is just ideas. Muslims can choose to leave Islam or reform it.

Interesting reaction. So you self-identify as far-right, I take it?

 

[icehorse]

National identities are poison.

I think they can be, but... I do not think that defending shared values is poison. I'm not a relativist, I think some value systems are "better" than others.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think they can be, but... I do not think that defending shared values is poison. I'm not a relativist, I think some value systems are "better" than others.

Is there any upside in doing that by using such a dangerous and artificial concept as nations, though?