Trailblazer
Veteran Member
He had the power, He just did not use it.
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Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?
- Thread starter Faithofchristian
- Start date
If its not vague to you what is the specific nature of the "unforeseen calamity", where will it happen when will it happen and how will it happen and most important of all, how did you get all that from, "Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity followeth you, and grievous retribution awaiteth you."?
It requires an understanding of all that Baha'u'llah has offered Daniel. It is a complex puzzle that only can be seen as more and more pieces are put into place.
That is the purpose, God allows us to assemble the puzzle, or say Meh!
Regards Tony
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Lol, then if he is not even prepared to save his own family from unforeseen calamity such as falling through a skylight to their death what makes you feel so guaranteed that he will spare a total stranger like you and me from unforeseen calamity regardless of whether we follow his law to the last letter like his own son did?
He could just claim he had the power to save you but chose not to and you'd go right on believing him to the point of death in my view.
You are dodging the question in my view.
You claimed its not vague which means in my view that you have assembled the puzzle to use your own words.
So go on then, show us the assembled puzzle and how you assembled it if you can.
The other thought is that Baha'u'llah did use it. He knew his sons demise and gave his son a choice. The choice was to live or a wish granted.
Mirza Mihdi asked that Baha'u'llah allow pilgrims to return to Haifa and Akka as a sacrafice for his life. Thus the privilege we have this day for Pilgrimage, is a direct result of that choice.
bahai-encyclopedia-project.org
The Baha'i Encyclopedia Project › ...
Mihdí, Mírzá (1848–70) - The Baha'i Encyclopedia Project
Baha'u'llah and Ásíyih K͟hánum gave their son for the future of Baha'i pilgrims. Ya Baha'ul Abha.
Regards Tony
I have no desire to do that for you Daniel, that would have to be your choice or it will always result in Meh!
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The context and thus what I was responding to was this:
"Meh, In my opinion Baha'u'llah who couldn't keep his own family loyal to the Baha'i Universal House of Justice invented by his successors reckons he has the power to avert any destruction caused by the remaining humans rejecting the more ridiculous advice of the Baha'i Universal House of Justice or any of the other more ridiculous advice of Baha'u'llah and his Successors?
Baha'u'llah should have the power to avert disaster in his own family before he comes lecturing people far more competent than himself on how to avert disaster in my view."
I was not referring to His son falling through the skylight. I was referring to the members of His family who rejected Him. I believe He had the power to change their minds but instead He left them to themselves to make their own choices.
I don't feel guaranteed that he will spare a total stranger like you and me from unforeseen calamity regardless of whether we follow his law to the last letter like his own son did. When did I ever say that?
Baha'u'llah never said that He was going to save anyone from the unforeseen calamity and my belief in Him is not based upon whether I will be spared or not. Yes, I will probably go on believing in Him till the point of death, unless something happens that causes me to lose that belief.
Of course you have no desire to do that which you are unable to do in my view.
So then @TransmutingSoul post threatening destruction for failure to adhere to the law of Baha'u'llah becomes irrelevant as we are just as likely to face unforeseen calamity with or without adherence to Baha'i law in my view.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That sure makes sense to me. Why would a person desire to do what they know they are are unable to do? That would be futile and only cause frustration.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
True.
It is not irrelevant. It does requires us to consider why we are given the ability to choose our path, regardless of what unfolds in this Matrix.
Regards Tony
The truth sets one free. No earthly calamity can overcome the station of certitude. The world is but a show, an assemblage of reality.
God knows all of our thoughts and actions, God's plan is inclusive of them all, the purpose of this matrix is to be born from it with all our spiritual limbs.
"....Grieve thou not over the troubles and hardships of this nether world, nor be thou glad in times of ease and comfort, for both shall pass away. This present life is even as a swelling wave, or a mirage, or drifting shadows. Could ever a distorted image on the desert serve as refreshing waters? No, by the Lord of Lords! Never can reality and the mere semblance of reality be one, and wide is the difference between fancy and fact, between truth and the phantom thereof.
Know thou that the Kingdom is the real world, and this nether place is only its shadow stretching out. A shadow hath no life of its own; its existence is only a fantasy, and nothing more; it is but images reflected in water, and seeming as pictures to the eye..."
Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, pp. 177-178.
Baha'u'llah gave us this Hidden Word to meditate upon.
"O Son of Worldliness! Pleasant is the realm of being, wert thou to attain thereto; glorious is the domain of eternity, shouldst thou pass beyond the world of mortality; sweet is the holy ecstasy if thou drinkest of the mystic chalice from the hands of the celestial Youth. Shouldst thou attain this station, thou wouldst be freed from destruction and death, from toil and sin." Baha’u’llah, The Hidden Words, p. 46.
There is much more to consider.
Regards Tony
Certitude is blind faith in my view as earthly calamity comes whether or not one follows the law of Baha'u'llah rendering threats of earthly calamity irrelevant, and threats of spiritual calamity in the afterlife are non-demonstrable (not to mention illogical as i see it).
Certitude can only be gained after a just, unbiased and honest search for the truth. It is based in sound logic and reason, with ample relative evidence having to be considered.
Regards Tony
To the contrary doubt can only be gained after a just, unbiased and honest search for the truth. It is based in sound logic and reason, with all reliable and relevant evidence having to be considered in my view.
To merely claim certitude can be gained through such a process without being able to demonstrate it is empty assertion in my view
One has to determine these matters for their own selves and Baha'u'llah offered that "The understanding of His words and the comprehension of the utterances of the Birds of Heaven are in no wise dependent upon human learning. They depend solely upon purity of heart, chastity of soul, and freedom of spirit."
Baha'u'llah asked us to
"Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee."
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248-249
I do not see the responsibility to continue to prove anything, is placed upon any individual believer, to any person that has repudiated and continues to repudiate what has been offered.
The ball is in your court, I am no longer playing.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So, if his son would have chosen to live, pilgrims would not have been allowed to go to Haifa? Why couldn't his father grant both?
I see the bounty of that decision was written on tablets of crystallite, before the time it was manifested in this world.
Baha'u'llah does not alter the God given plan, I see the Messengers manifest God's Will unto humanity.
I get this personal understanding from this passage from the 'Summons of the Lord of Hosts'. Baha'u'llah has all knowledge of the future and the past. The Spirit He was Annointed with is the beginning, that has no beginning and it is the end, that has no end.
"..Within the treasury of Our Wisdom there lieth unrevealed a knowledge, one word of which, if we chose to divulge it to mankind, would cause every human being to recognize the Manifestation of God and to acknowledge His omniscience, would enable every one to discover the secrets of all the sciences, and to attain so high a station as to find himself wholly independent of all past and future learning. Other knowledges We do as well possess, not a single letter of which We can disclose, nor do We find humanity able to hear even the barest reference to their meaning. Thus have We informed you of the knowledge of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Were We to find worthy vessels, We would impart unto them the treasures of hidden meanings and apprise them of a knowledge, one letter of which would encompass all created things..." The Summons of the Lord of Hosts
This life has a given purpose, it is a matrix, a womb for spiritual growth, we are granted free will to find our spiritual capacity and I see God's plan is mapped by our choices, they were known before we made them.
Regards Tony