Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?

[TransmutingSoul]

So, if his son would have chosen to live, pilgrims would not have been allowed to go to Haifa? Why couldn't his father grant both?

I see the bounty of that decision was written on tablets of crystallite, before the time it was manifested in this world.

Baha'u'llah does not alter the God given plan, I see the Messengers manifest God's Will unto humanity.

I get this personal understanding from this passage from the 'Summons of the Lord of Hosts'. Baha'u'llah has all knowledge of the future and the past. The Spirit He was Annointed with is the beginning, that has no beginning and it is the end, that has no end.

"..Within the treasury of Our Wisdom there lieth unrevealed a knowledge, one word of which, if we chose to divulge it to mankind, would cause every human being to recognize the Manifestation of God and to acknowledge His omniscience, would enable every one to discover the secrets of all the sciences, and to attain so high a station as to find himself wholly independent of all past and future learning. Other knowledges We do as well possess, not a single letter of which We can disclose, nor do We find humanity able to hear even the barest reference to their meaning. Thus have We informed you of the knowledge of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Were We to find worthy vessels, We would impart unto them the treasures of hidden meanings and apprise them of a knowledge, one letter of which would encompass all created things..." The Summons of the Lord of Hosts

This life has a given purpose, it is a matrix, a womb for spiritual growth, we are granted free will to find our spiritual capacity and I see God's plan is mapped by our choices, they were known before we made them.

Regards Tony

I would like to offer the thought CG, from my understanding, is that we only get one chance of freewill submission, it is but a blink in eternity, yet the bounty is eternal. When we pass from this existence into the next, any spiritual progress is by God's mercy, grace and bounty.

Why would be let pass such a priceless bounty? My own self reflection on my path in life has me asking that of myself very often.

Now is the chance for all of us to make that Choice, to submit to God's Messengers and become one people, united under the Love of the One God.

Consider CG, that the physical and spiritual worlds are endless and hidden to man:

“This universe is not created through the fortuitous concurrences of atoms; it is created by a great law which decrees that the tree bring forth certain definite fruit. Verily, this universe contains many worlds of which we know nothing”. (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 139).

Capitals by me

“This PHYSICAL UNIVERSE IS INFINITE, and if material existence is endless, HOW MUCH MORE SO ARE THE WORLDS OF GOD! When we think of the visible worlds as infinite, how can we think that the worlds of God are limited? THERE IS NO BEGINNING AND NO END TO THE MATERIAL OR SPIRITUAL WORLDS. Man passes through different phases and when in a lower consciousness he cannot comprehend the consciousness above. When we were in the state of the unborn child we had no knowledge of the world of man. If the vegetable kingdom could speak it would cry out, "Where is the world of man?" We cry out, "Where is the kingdom of the spirit?" (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 117)

Now CG, consider what is to come, why would we want to go on that journey veiled and without spiritual limbs?

"Concerning the future life what Bahá'u'lláh says is that the soul will continue to ASCEND THROUGH MANY WORLDS. What those worlds are and what their nature is we cannot know. The same way the child in the matrix cannot know this world so we cannot know what the other world is going to be."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 18, 1932) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 204)

My understanding is that this life enables us to grow a spiritual conciousness that enables us to pass on aware and open to the world to come.

Otherwise we are like a rock in this existence, existence without consciousness of what we are part of.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

One has to determine these matters for their own selves and Baha'u'llah offered that "The understanding of His words and the comprehension of the utterances of the Birds of Heaven are in no wise dependent upon human learning. They depend solely upon purity of heart, chastity of soul, and freedom of spirit."

It is dishonest polemic in my view, i used to have all 3 including chastity and I saw through Baha'u'llah's nonsense.

Chastity has no relevance to critical thought process and independent investigation anyway, so in spite of having possesed all 3 and seeing through the nonsense I believe having only 2 of those is sufficient to assess any new evidence that comes to light.

Baha'u'llah asked us to

"Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee."
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248-249

Yeah more warning/threat where a critical thinker would expect reliable evidence in my view.

I do not see the responsibility to continue to prove anything, is placed upon any individual believer, to any person that has repudiated and continues to repudiate what has been offered.

The ball is in your court, I am no longer playing.

Regards Tony

No one is forcing you to continue replying Tony, that is your disobedience to your idol Baha'u'llah that you repeat where he told you to turn away as I see it.

 

[CG Didymus]

I would like to offer the thought CG, from my understanding, is that we only get one chance of freewill submission, it is but a blink in eternity, yet the bounty is eternal. When we pass from this existence into the next, any spiritual progress is by God's mercy, grace and bounty.

Why would be let pass such a priceless bounty? My own self reflection on my path in life has me asking that of myself very often.

Now is the chance for all of us to make that Choice, to submit to God's Messengers and become one people, united under the Love of the One God.

Consider CG, that the physical and spiritual worlds are endless and hidden to man:

“This universe is not created through the fortuitous concurrences of atoms; it is created by a great law which decrees that the tree bring forth certain definite fruit. Verily, this universe contains many worlds of which we know nothing”. (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 139).

Capitals by me

“This PHYSICAL UNIVERSE IS INFINITE, and if material existence is endless, HOW MUCH MORE SO ARE THE WORLDS OF GOD! When we think of the visible worlds as infinite, how can we think that the worlds of God are limited? THERE IS NO BEGINNING AND NO END TO THE MATERIAL OR SPIRITUAL WORLDS. Man passes through different phases and when in a lower consciousness he cannot comprehend the consciousness above. When we were in the state of the unborn child we had no knowledge of the world of man. If the vegetable kingdom could speak it would cry out, "Where is the world of man?" We cry out, "Where is the kingdom of the spirit?" (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 117)

Now CG, consider what is to come, why would we want to go on that journey veiled and without spiritual limbs?

"Concerning the future life what Bahá'u'lláh says is that the soul will continue to ASCEND THROUGH MANY WORLDS. What those worlds are and what their nature is we cannot know. The same way the child in the matrix cannot know this world so we cannot know what the other world is going to be."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 18, 1932) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 204)

My understanding is that this life enables us to grow a spiritual conciousness that enables us to pass on aware and open to the world to come.

Otherwise we are like a rock in this existence, existence without consciousness of what we are part of.

Regards Tony

Yes great... if the Baha'i Faith is true. But I have people just as convinced as you that their beliefs are true. They tell me that I need to turn to Jesus to avoid being cast into hell and to go to some heavenly paradise. But you know all their beliefs and claims. All of which are not true... if the Baha'i Faith is true.

 

[CG Didymus]

No one is forcing you to continue replying Tony, that is your disobedience to your idol Baha'u'llah that you repeat where he told you to turn away as I see it.

Tony seems to me to be a very nice guy. But I've met lots of "nice" people that tried to tell me, preach to me, or teach me what they believe to be the truth. How are we supposed to know which one is really telling the truth? Of course, by researching the religion itself and by asking those people some tough questions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony seems to me to be a very nice guy. But I've met lots of "nice" people that tried to tell me, preach to me, or teach me what they believe to be the truth. How are we supposed to know which one is really telling the truth? Of course, by researching the religion itself and by asking those people some tough questions.

All the best with your search CG. I wish you always well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes great... if the Baha'i Faith is true. But I have people just as convinced as you that their beliefs are true. They tell me that I need to turn to Jesus to avoid being cast into hell and to go to some heavenly paradise. But you know all their beliefs and claims. All of which are not true... if the Baha'i Faith is true.

By their fruits you will know them. Baha'u'llah had no bad fruits.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

By their fruits you will know them. Baha'u'llah had no bad fruits.

Regards Tony

Yes... if you believe everything that he taught and wrote is true. But what if his teachings are false? Was Adam a manifestation of God? Not in the Bible story. Was the Bible wrong or is Baha'u'llah wrong? I always mention that thing about Ishmael and Isaac. The Bible says Isaac was taken to be sacrificed. Baha'u'llah says Ishmael. Who's right?

If the Bible is not right, then Judaism and Christianity have wrong beliefs built into to them based directly on misinformation that came from the Bible itself. And I'm okay with believing that the Bible isn't perfect... That it is a religious book written by people.

It is Baha'is that are saying all the manifestations brought a book that repeated the same spiritual truths but came with new social laws. What book did Krishna bring? How about Buddha? Then what about Adam, Abraham, Noah and Moses? Even Jesus? The stories about them were written by people.

No religion has been perfect. They've all had internal conflicts. That's some rotten fruit. Will the Baha'i Faith be different? Sorry, but I don't see how. Like I've asked before... Right now, in any large city, how is it being run by nine people? Now what if the whole city were Baha'is? How is that going to work? And then the next year different people might get elected?

Then... How will a large city be able to hold feasts? Let's say a city of 100,000? Or what about a city of a million or more? What's the plan? Each neighborhood has its own feast?

So, what's his plan?

 

[freelight]

People may judge for themselves. whether or not Baha'u'llah is a true or false Prophet.

On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Bahá'u'lláh

Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre in Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Shrine_of_Bahá'u'lláh
The Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh, located in Bahjí near Acre, Israel, is the most holy ... It contains the remains of Bahá'u'lláh and is near the spot where he died in the Mansion of Bahjí.

This being about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.


Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.

Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.

The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.

So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

34-- "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

So we find the Prophets of Gods died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem or by a natural death of old age.

Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem.

So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever. As there were no prophets of Gods that ever died by any diseases.

But by a natural death of old age or at the hands of people in Jerusalem.

Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem as a false prophet.

I dont think one verse in one of the gospels stands as a 'universal qualifier' for who is a prophet or not, since plenty of holy men & women, seers, sages, teachers, oracles, avatars, etc. have been on earth serving within different religious traditions, cultures and geographical locations.

'Spirit' is omnipresent, universal, infinite, boundless.....all in all. - as for Bahualluah's validity, we are to judge a tree by its fruit. The life and teachings of a prophet stand on the merit and quality of their teachings, their life work as a whole. From what I've seen of Bahaism, its a religion that stands for the highest human values of morality, integrity, justice, compassion and equity for all peoples, the whole human family. Some of the writings I read are right up there with other inspired prose, poetry and so called 'scriptures'. One can nitpick perhaps at any faults or imperfections in the founder of a given religion or the community/organization that followed after them, as well as recognize the positive value and contributions of such. This applies to all.


~*~*~

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, what's his plan?

That is the journey one must take for their own selves CG.

Tell me, what is the plan?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Then... How will a large city be able to hold feasts? Let's say a city of 100,000? Or what about a city of a million or more? What's the plan? Each neighborhood has its own feast?

I do not think there is a plan.
That is far in the future. Plans develop as we go along.

 

[Truthseeker]

I do not think there is a plan.
That is far in the future. Plans develop as we go along.

Already in some cities with a large number of Baha'is, there are multiple places where there are Feasts, in different sections of the city. Columbus, Ohio is one such place I've heard recently by someone I know that moved there recently.

 

[danieldemol]

Bad fruits of the Baha'i faith;
-Anti-gay teaching
-Men and women supposedly equal but no women's representation on the Universal House of Justice.
-Opposition to the scientific method as Baha'i have to assume what the Messenger says is "fundamentally true".
-Baha'u'llah cursing those who reject him eg:

'Amongst them were those who claimed: "These are not clear verses from God, nor do they proceed from an innate and untaught nature." Thus do the unbelievers seek to remedy the sickness of their hearts, utterly heedless that they thus render themselves accursed of all who dwell in heaven and on earth.'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 3-54

-Baha'u'llah appears to occasionally speak out of both sides of his mouth with respect to the murder of his opposition, for example he describes the act of murder of Siyyid Muhammad-i-Isfahani as an act that caused his heart and pen to groan in one instance, and then in the Kitab-i-Aqdas he describes it as an act of God, 'God hath laid hold on him who led thee astray'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 249-250

 

[Trailblazer]

Bad fruits of the Baha'i faith;
-Anti-gay teaching

There is no anti-gay teaching.

-Men and women supposedly equal but no women's representation on the Universal House of Justice.

No women on the Universal House of Justice does not mean men and women are not equal, not to any logical mind.

-Opposition to the scientific method as Baha'i have to assume what the Messenger says is "fundamentally true".

The Baha'i Faith does not oppose the scientific method.

-Baha'u'llah cursing those who reject him

So what?

 

[CG Didymus]

That is the journey one must take for their own selves CG.

Tell me, what is the plan?

Regards Tony

Here's a Baha'i who thinks there is a plan...

How Do Baha’is Plan to Change the World?​

Here's another one... "Baha’i teachings contain a specific, detailed peace plan..."

And yet another plan...

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baha’u’llah, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth...​

​

This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples.​

​

A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth.​

​

A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system.​

And then there's this... "A Modest Proposal" from Baha'is with a plan.

• No objective observer could fail to recognize the signal growth and maturation of the American Baha'i community... the Baha'is of the United States far outweigh in activity and influence our modest size of about 100,000 believers.​
• However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated, at least by some objective measures, within the past decade. Americans are loathe to face such stagnancy or admit that any decline is occurring, but even a cursory look at a few basic facts and indicators reveals the trends: Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
  Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
  While the goals of the Nine, Five, and Seven Year Plans were, for the most part, won, the American Baha'i community has yet to achieve anything close to widespread enrollments and the beginning of the process of "entry by troops" expected here for over a decade.
  Inactivity and alienation are difficult to measure quantitatively. However, the most commonly accepted gauge of inactivity-Baha'is who are listed as being "address unknown" status-now comprise a staggering percentage of the total community: 40-45,000 names of 100,000 believers. In the 1970s, this figure generally stayed within the 30 percent range, while now almost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers.
  The national Fund faces a greater deficit than ever before, and contributions, while up monetarily each year, continue to represent stagnant or even smaller numbers of participants, both in terms of
  S U M M E R / F A L L 1 9 8 7 dialogue:
  individual contributors and local Spiritual Assemblies. And most seriously, many conscientious Baha'is are convinced that a spiritual malaise has settled upon our small community, infecting us with a lassitude that has compromised our ability to grow and be healthy.
  These are serious and troubling matters. But they are not new, nor are they insurmountable. The Baha'i community of the United States has faced similar tests and periods of dormancy before, and has redoubled its efforts and overcome its trials. Such effort was often painful, requiring much personal sacrifice as well as the sacrifice of sacred cows; but the results were great victories like those realized during the Ten Year Crusade and Nine Year Plan.
  And not all, certainly, is bleak. There has been great progress and a veritable explosion of Baha'i culture in the past 20 years, with signal developments in the areas of Baha'i scholarship, development of Baha'i institutions, social and economic development, and the level of maturity of the community, to name just a few areas. No one discounts or denies that growth, but the problems remain large and seemingly intractable, and could seriously erode the aforementioned gains if not addressed.
  The purpose of this essay is to attempt a beginning at the discussion of potential remedies for our plight. `Abdu'l-Baha assures us that the solutions to tests and difficulties come from frank and honest consultation. Hopefully, this proposal will serve to launch earnest and soul-searching discussion within the community. By no means does this essay pretend to be; all-inclusive, nor does it portend to have all or even one of the answers. We have restricted our observations and proposals to a limited range of national policy issues that can be consulted on and implemented or rejected in a timely manner. It is our hope that the implementation of new policies, designed to open up the f1ow of information between the believers and their institutions, will bring about more honest communication and consultation and thereby assist us all to more effectively address such issues as deficiencies in Baha’i devotional life, or problems with racism,
  PAGE 3
  prejudice, cultural pluralism, and sexism in our midst-problems which many readers may view as more fundamental than the one's we raise here. It is the fondest hope of the authors that these observations and recommendations will be accepted in the spirit of loving and honest consultation, and not taken personally by any one or looked on as hostile, destructively critical, or dissembling in any way.​

For those of you that don't know the Baha'is involved with this article all got in trouble for publishing it. That was not their plan. The plan was to offer suggestions to make things better.

 

[CG Didymus]

Anti-gay teaching

I guess Baha'is define being "anti-gay" differently. But whatever Baha's want to call it, here's what the Baha'i Faith teaches on homosexuality...

​

Shoghi Effendi, who as Guardian of the Bahá’í Faith is the authoritative interpreter of Bahá’í scripture, wrote the following:​

​

"No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong."[2]​

A letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice which was accompanied by several extracts from the Bahá’í writings makes the following summary of the Bahá’í stance on homosexuality:​

​

"1. Homosexuality is strongly condemned by Bahá'u'lláh​

2. The Bahá'í Writings do not point to the causes of homosexuality, although they do state that​

3. Homosexuality is an "aberration", and is "against nature"​

4. Homosexuality can be overcome, and​

5. The individual is expected to make an effort to overcome the affliction."[3]​

In another letter the Universal House of Justice has written the following:​

​

"...the Faith does not recognize homosexuality as a "natural" or permanent phenomenon. Rather, it sees this as an aberration subject to treatment, however intractable exclusive homosexuality may now seem to be. To the question of alteration of homosexual bents, much study must be given, and doubtless in the future clear principles of prevention and treatment will emerge."[2]​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here's a Baha'i who thinks there is a plan...

How Do Baha’is Plan to Change the World?​

Here's another one... "Baha’i teachings contain a specific, detailed peace plan..."

And yet another plan...

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baha’u’llah, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth...​

​

This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples.​

​

A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth.​

​

A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system.​

And then there's this... "A Modest Proposal" from Baha'is with a plan.

• No objective observer could fail to recognize the signal growth and maturation of the American Baha'i community... the Baha'is of the United States far outweigh in activity and influence our modest size of about 100,000 believers.​
• However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated, at least by some objective measures, within the past decade. Americans are loathe to face such stagnancy or admit that any decline is occurring, but even a cursory look at a few basic facts and indicators reveals the trends: Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
  Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
  While the goals of the Nine, Five, and Seven Year Plans were, for the most part, won, the American Baha'i community has yet to achieve anything close to widespread enrollments and the beginning of the process of "entry by troops" expected here for over a decade.
  Inactivity and alienation are difficult to measure quantitatively. However, the most commonly accepted gauge of inactivity-Baha'is who are listed as being "address unknown" status-now comprise a staggering percentage of the total community: 40-45,000 names of 100,000 believers. In the 1970s, this figure generally stayed within the 30 percent range, while now almost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers.
  The national Fund faces a greater deficit than ever before, and contributions, while up monetarily each year, continue to represent stagnant or even smaller numbers of participants, both in terms of
  S U M M E R / F A L L 1 9 8 7 dialogue:
  individual contributors and local Spiritual Assemblies. And most seriously, many conscientious Baha'is are convinced that a spiritual malaise has settled upon our small community, infecting us with a lassitude that has compromised our ability to grow and be healthy.
  These are serious and troubling matters. But they are not new, nor are they insurmountable. The Baha'i community of the United States has faced similar tests and periods of dormancy before, and has redoubled its efforts and overcome its trials. Such effort was often painful, requiring much personal sacrifice as well as the sacrifice of sacred cows; but the results were great victories like those realized during the Ten Year Crusade and Nine Year Plan.
  And not all, certainly, is bleak. There has been great progress and a veritable explosion of Baha'i culture in the past 20 years, with signal developments in the areas of Baha'i scholarship, development of Baha'i institutions, social and economic development, and the level of maturity of the community, to name just a few areas. No one discounts or denies that growth, but the problems remain large and seemingly intractable, and could seriously erode the aforementioned gains if not addressed.
  The purpose of this essay is to attempt a beginning at the discussion of potential remedies for our plight. `Abdu'l-Baha assures us that the solutions to tests and difficulties come from frank and honest consultation. Hopefully, this proposal will serve to launch earnest and soul-searching discussion within the community. By no means does this essay pretend to be; all-inclusive, nor does it portend to have all or even one of the answers. We have restricted our observations and proposals to a limited range of national policy issues that can be consulted on and implemented or rejected in a timely manner. It is our hope that the implementation of new policies, designed to open up the f1ow of information between the believers and their institutions, will bring about more honest communication and consultation and thereby assist us all to more effectively address such issues as deficiencies in Baha’i devotional life, or problems with racism,
  PAGE 3
  prejudice, cultural pluralism, and sexism in our midst-problems which many readers may view as more fundamental than the one's we raise here. It is the fondest hope of the authors that these observations and recommendations will be accepted in the spirit of loving and honest consultation, and not taken personally by any one or looked on as hostile, destructively critical, or dissembling in any way.​

For those of you that don't know the Baha'is involved with this article all got in trouble for publishing it. That was not their plan. The plan was to offer suggestions to make things better.

The question was, what do you think is the plan? What do you understand as to what was offered by Baha'u'llah?

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

There is no anti-gay teaching.

Shodhgi Effendi calls it a "shameful sexual abberation" a "handicap" "highly condemned" and insists that people who are openly or "flagrantly" homosexual should if they refuse to improve "he should have his voting rights taken away".
Source: Homosexuality

No women on the Universal House of Justice does not mean men and women are not equal, not to any logical mind.

I'll leave that to critical thinkers to decide.

The Baha'i Faith does not oppose the scientific method.

To assume what a messenger says is "fundamentally true" where it disagrees with the results of the scientific method is to be opposed to the scientific method in my view.
'You see our whole approach to each matter is based on the belief that God sends us divinely inspired Educators; what they tell us is fundamentally true, what science tells us today is true; tomorrow may be entirely changed to better explain a new set of facts.'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Arohanui: Letters from Shoghi Effendi to New Zealand, Pages 85-86

So what?

So Baha'u'llah forbids cursing yet curses pretty much every non-belliever ever making one of the "fruits" of the Baha'i faith hypocrisy in my view.

I also not you didn't even bother to address Baha'u'llah basically gloating over the murder of one of his enemies at the hands of his friends in the Kitab-i-Aqdas.

 

[Truthseeker]

Here's a Baha'i who thinks there is a plan...

How Do Baha’is Plan to Change the World?​

Here's another one... "Baha’i teachings contain a specific, detailed peace plan..."

And yet another plan...

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baha’u’llah, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth...​

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This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples.​

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A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth.​

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A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system.​

And then there's this... "A Modest Proposal" from Baha'is with a plan.

• No objective observer could fail to recognize the signal growth and maturation of the American Baha'i community... the Baha'is of the United States far outweigh in activity and influence our modest size of about 100,000 believers.​
• However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated, at least by some objective measures, within the past decade. Americans are loathe to face such stagnancy or admit that any decline is occurring, but even a cursory look at a few basic facts and indicators reveals the trends: Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
  Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
  While the goals of the Nine, Five, and Seven Year Plans were, for the most part, won, the American Baha'i community has yet to achieve anything close to widespread enrollments and the beginning of the process of "entry by troops" expected here for over a decade.
  Inactivity and alienation are difficult to measure quantitatively. However, the most commonly accepted gauge of inactivity-Baha'is who are listed as being "address unknown" status-now comprise a staggering percentage of the total community: 40-45,000 names of 100,000 believers. In the 1970s, this figure generally stayed within the 30 percent range, while now almost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers.
  The national Fund faces a greater deficit than ever before, and contributions, while up monetarily each year, continue to represent stagnant or even smaller numbers of participants, both in terms of
  S U M M E R / F A L L 1 9 8 7 dialogue:
  individual contributors and local Spiritual Assemblies. And most seriously, many conscientious Baha'is are convinced that a spiritual malaise has settled upon our small community, infecting us with a lassitude that has compromised our ability to grow and be healthy.
  These are serious and troubling matters. But they are not new, nor are they insurmountable. The Baha'i community of the United States has faced similar tests and periods of dormancy before, and has redoubled its efforts and overcome its trials. Such effort was often painful, requiring much personal sacrifice as well as the sacrifice of sacred cows; but the results were great victories like those realized during the Ten Year Crusade and Nine Year Plan.
  And not all, certainly, is bleak. There has been great progress and a veritable explosion of Baha'i culture in the past 20 years, with signal developments in the areas of Baha'i scholarship, development of Baha'i institutions, social and economic development, and the level of maturity of the community, to name just a few areas. No one discounts or denies that growth, but the problems remain large and seemingly intractable, and could seriously erode the aforementioned gains if not addressed.
  The purpose of this essay is to attempt a beginning at the discussion of potential remedies for our plight. `Abdu'l-Baha assures us that the solutions to tests and difficulties come from frank and honest consultation. Hopefully, this proposal will serve to launch earnest and soul-searching discussion within the community. By no means does this essay pretend to be; all-inclusive, nor does it portend to have all or even one of the answers. We have restricted our observations and proposals to a limited range of national policy issues that can be consulted on and implemented or rejected in a timely manner. It is our hope that the implementation of new policies, designed to open up the f1ow of information between the believers and their institutions, will bring about more honest communication and consultation and thereby assist us all to more effectively address such issues as deficiencies in Baha’i devotional life, or problems with racism,
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  prejudice, cultural pluralism, and sexism in our midst-problems which many readers may view as more fundamental than the one's we raise here. It is the fondest hope of the authors that these observations and recommendations will be accepted in the spirit of loving and honest consultation, and not taken personally by any one or looked on as hostile, destructively critical, or dissembling in any way.​

For those of you that don't know the Baha'is involved with this article all got in trouble for publishing it. That was not their plan. The plan was to offer suggestions to make things better.

I accept that it has been a challenge in America to increase the numbers of Baha'is since the 60s and early 70s. At the time when the Baha'i Faith weas growing, people , especially young people were acutely aware of problems of racism, war, and inequality between the sexes. The Faith stood out with those social issues, and that helped drive an increase in numbers of Baha'is. Now those same social issues are taken more for granted, and since the seventies, America has become increasingly more into materialism and away from religion in general. Those who look into the Baha'i Faith certainly see that we advocate good principles for today, but don't want to live a lifestyle that is not "in step" with current moral norms. In our activities today, as much as possible we have included people who are not Baha'is in our activities, and their involvement with us has increased, but few of those become Baha'i. Nevertheless it is good that we associate in common activities with people who are like minded in some ways. It is also hard to gauge possible increases in maturity and character in Baha'is, and how well Baha'i communities function.

We definitely at any rate are at a plateau in number of Baha'is as you said in America. I say also in reply that the Western world in general has plateaued in numbers of Baha'is, but the so-called Western world is but a part of the world, and there are Baha'is in every country except North Korea and Vatican City. I don't know about how many active Baha'is there are in those places. Activity in social action has increased exponentially around the world, and also core activities' on a world-wide scale has been increasing exponentially. About growth about Baha'is I don't know anything about that. The number of activities is what the Universal House of Justice has kept tabs on the most, and I think rightly so. What good is the number of Baha'is on the rolls if a large number are not active in doing anything for the world or for the Baha'i faith?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I guess Baha'is define being "anti-gay" differently.

It is defined by God in God given guidance to humanity, it is a standard we are all called upon to implement.

The law is no sex outside of marriage and that a lawful marriage is between a man and a women. (This standard of sexual morality has not been changed, some other aspects such as divorce have.)

So as it is a law of God, in Essence it cannot be "Anti", as the laws are given for the growth and prosperity of humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

So as it is a law of God, in Essence it cannot be "Anti", as the laws are given for the growth and prosperity of humanity.

I bet the followers of Huitzilopochtli thought the same about the law of human sacrifice.