Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[SkepticThinker]

You are getting desperate and just making that up....please provide evidence that he ever met a homosexual?

Making what up? If Jesus was just some regular guy, he probably would have just faded into obscurity. Am I really saying something controversial when I point out that he was no "ordinary" Jew and that some of his views were pretty radical for his time?

That's kind of why I asked you the question I did, which was: What does the OT say about hanging out with prostitutes and other "outcasts" (for example, homosexuals)? I should have followed that up with the question: And what would Jesus have to say about hanging out with prostitutes and other "outcasts" (for example, homosexuals)?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And you agree with it, correct? So yes, you are asserting that homosexuality is an abomination.

Indeed. What concerns me is the lack of empathy, there seems to be little understanding of how hurtful it can be to be on the receiving end of such language.

Imagine being called an "abomination".

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And what would Jesus have to say about hanging out with prostitutes and other "outcasts" (for example, homosexuals)?

Jesus said "Love your neighbour as yourself", not "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight."

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I believe in affect this can be included in the commandment of "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

How so? The commandment is about cheating outside marriage, nothing to do with gays.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I believe I could care less because all those arguments do not hold water.

So what do you think the arguments are?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I believe I know what I am saying even if it appears jumbled...

I believe again you have failed to see that same sex love is a perversion and heterosexual love is not.

I believe this is fallacious reasoning .It is like saying that an apple and an orange are both fruit so apples must be oranges.

I believe I have no such obsession. My position on this is not about sex; it is about sin. I point it out because the wages of sin is death and I do not wish to see people die.

I believe God is in me speaking when I debate on this site so even though the voice is mine the words are God's and His judgement.

This morning watching the timer tick down on the microwave it seemed to tick more slowly than usual. My wife said time does not change and she is right but our perception of it does change. You see things that are not there because you have a perverted perception of what I say.

I believe that is a false interpretation taken out of context.

I do not believe any good can come of evil. In order to have a better world I must promote goodness.

What is fallacious reasoning, is thinking that the love experienced and felt by a heterosexual HUMAN BEING is somehow different than the love experienced and felt by a homosexual HUMAN BEING. There is no logical reason to assert that they are different. And your assertion that it is an apples and oranges comparison is absurd.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I believe The Holy Spirit helps us decide what is relevant and what is not. It serves much better than a law written for an ancient people with an ancient culture. This is the difference between Christianity and Islam or Judaism. Christianity is presently relevant whereas the others are stuck in antiquated ways that are not as relevant today.

Sounds like cherry picking to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Indeed. What concerns me is the lack of empathy, there seems to be little understanding of how hurtful it can be to be on the receiving end of such language.

Imagine being called an "abomination".

That's how I think about it.
This is what I mean when I say I make a point in my life to treat people with kindness, because I often try to imagine how it would feel to be called something so terrible and I would never want to cause someone that kind of pain or anxiety. And then I get condemned for vanity or something.

 

[Draka]

I believe I know what I am saying even if it appears jumbled...

Glad you do, because no one else does there.

I believe again you have failed to see that same sex love is a perversion and heterosexual love is not.

Yeah, I fail to see that as no one has been able to prove that assertion, ever. There is no logical basis in the world that can back that up so, it fails as an assertion completely. So, yes, I readily admit I fail to see that falsehood, that made up bit of nonsense, as "fact". I see it for what it is, rubbish.

I believe this is fallacious reasoning .It is like saying that an apple and an orange are both fruit so apples must be oranges.

No. It's like saying "I am a human being and I feel love and Patrick is a human being and he feels love" The fact that both Patrick and I both happen to be in love with men makes no difference in the emotion we feel as human beings. We are human beings. People. With the same needs, desires, emotions, dreams, strengths, weaknesses, fears, wants, insecurities, and more. People love. Who the recipient of that love is doesn't matter. It truly doesn't matter who receives that love, the love itself, the emotion, is the SAME.

I believe I have no such obsession. My position on this is not about sex; it is about sin. I point it out because the wages of sin is death and I do not wish to see people die.

It is most certainly about sex. Unless you want to claim that love itself is a sin. But I don't think you can separate love and sex. For you it is all intertwined. At least in regards to homosexuals it seems to be. Only for you, the love doesn't exist, it is just the sex.

How about you worry about yourself and the numerous sins you have been and are guilty of in your life?

I believe God is in me speaking when I debate on this site so even though the voice is mine the words are God's and His judgement.

Wow. Quite the high horse you have put yourself upon. You believe your god is speaking in you? The words you say are your god's? You are his, what, vessel? Think yourself mighty important there don't you?

This morning watching the timer tick down on the microwave it seemed to tick more slowly than usual. My wife said time does not change and she is right but our perception of it does change. You see things that are not there because you have a perverted perception of what I say.

Or...what you say is just perverted. Plain and simple.

I believe that is a false interpretation taken out of context.

You'd like to believe that wouldn't you? You need to believe that. Else you couldn't get your kicks and high and mighty feeling from judging others.

I do not believe any good can come of evil. In order to have a better world I must promote goodness.

How in the world is encouraging discrimination and hatred and condemnation "promoting goodness"??? You do not promote goodness of any kind. Goodness is loving each other, accepting each other, helping each other, embracing each other. You do not do this. You do not pull people together with your words, you tear them apart. You do not lift others up with your words, you tear them down. You do not value others, you devalue them. You do not "promote goodness", you do quite the opposite.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The Bible condemns many things, you are just cherry-picking stuff that coincides with your own prejudices.

There is certainly nothing "spiritual" about your judgemental attitudes.

And talking of the Bible, perhaps you should reflect on this passage:
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

I stay on topic.....you just babble on for the sake of hand waving and letting everyone know how upset you are that people post on topic biblical stuff that you do not agree with....stiff....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you abstain from eating food polluted by idols and meat strangled from animals?

And when you quote Leviticus to condemn homosexual acts, are you only speaking to Jews then?

The answer to the first question is yes...and your the second question needs clarification....it is the bible that 'speaks' ...not my self...and it speaks to both Jews and Christians...and so far as I know....Muslims..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And you agree with it, correct? So yes, you are asserting that homosexuality is an abomination.

I'm telling you I don't need lectures about how to treat people from someone asserting that a sexual orientation that is beyond a person's choice is an abomination.

I try very hard to treat people with kindness, respect and dignity. That's how I was raised. Never said I was the kindest person. And not admiring myself - just stating how I aim to treat other human beings in the world, though I don't always live up to it.
Nice try though.

I am asserting only what the bible says...nothing more....

And it is your atheistic discontent with the biblical authority that you do not like the bible teachings on homosexuality posted.....not only be me...but anyone and everyone who posts it... is that not correct?

Now that sounds better, a more humble expression of the real person....I do empathize with you and have high respect for your parents as well...you are blessed to have this outlook towards others....

 

[Draka]

I am asserting only what the bible says...nothing more....

And it is your atheistic discontent with the biblical authority that you do not like the bible teachings on homosexuality posted.....not only be me...but anyone and everyone who posts it... is that not correct?

Now that sounds better, a more humble expression of the real person....I do empathize with you and have high respect for your parents as well...you are blessed to have this outlook towards others....

Why must you chalk it up to it being an atheist thing? It isn't because someone is an atheist that they may not like the bible teachings of homosexuality (or anything else for that matter), but because the bible teachings themselves are discriminatory and hateful and the ramblings of ignorant desert people from long ago. It doesn't take an atheist to see that. Many theists see it as well, myself included.

You need to get off this anti-atheist kick. Honestly, it isn't just atheists that have problems with your beliefs. It isn't just atheists that see the inconsistencies and ugliness of the bible. Other theists do as well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am asserting only what the bible says...nothing more....

You are also agreeing with it.

And it is your atheistic discontent with the biblical authority that you do not like the bible teachings on homosexuality posted.....not only be me...but anyone and everyone who posts it... is that not correct?

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but I don't believe the Bible holds any moral authority and I don't believe it is the word of god or inspired by god, because I do not believe the Biblical god exists. (That's not to say I think the Bible doesn't contain any words of wisdom or value at all). I think if we want to determine if something is right or wrong we need to look at it critically, logically, weigh out the advantages or disadvantages, determine if the behavior causes harm or not, etc. In other words, I think we should determine such things for ourselves (and I think we actually do.)

Now that sounds better, a more humble expression of the real person....I do empathize with you and have high respect for your parents as well...you are blessed to have this outlook towards others....

Thank you. My parents are amazing people and I have them to thank for the person I am (or try to be).
I just think if everybody were kinder and less judgmental toward each other, the world would be a better place to live for everybody. We're all in this together.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The answer to the first question is yes...and your the second question needs clarification....it is the bible that 'speaks' ...not my self...and it speaks to both Jews and Christians...and so far as I know....Muslims..

So what parts are you saying apply to gentiles then? If you're saying Leviticus applies to gentiles, then how can you say the parts about wearing mixed fabrics only apply to Jews but the parts about homosexuality apply to everyone? It sounds contradictory.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why must you chalk it up to it being an atheist thing? It isn't because someone is an atheist that they may not like the bible teachings of homosexuality (or anything else for that matter), but because the bible teachings themselves are discriminatory and hateful and the ramblings of ignorant desert people from long ago. It doesn't take an atheist to see that. Many theists see it as well, myself included.

Even those who ascribe to neither atheism or theism can see the Bible has some very serious and grave moral and ethical concerns. It's why I keep insisting that eventually we are going to hit a point where we (collectively as a society) where we realize we are so far removed from "Biblical principles" that no one considers themselves a Christian. It may even be one day that calling yourself a Christian is equivalent to calling yourself a Neo-Nazi today. People will see an "angry and jealous" god, they will see the rampant bigotry, the misogyny, genocide, and so much bad stuff that they'll want nothing to do with it and they won't understand why any logical or rational person would want to follow it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Why must you chalk it up to it being an atheist thing? It isn't because someone is an atheist that they may not like the bible teachings of homosexuality (or anything else for that matter), but because the bible teachings themselves are discriminatory and hateful and the ramblings of ignorant desert people from long ago. It doesn't take an atheist to see that. Many theists see it as well, myself included.

You need to get off this anti-atheist kick. Honestly, it isn't just atheists that have problems with your beliefs. It isn't just atheists that see the inconsistencies and ugliness of the bible. Other theists do as well.

You are still making the error of attacking the messenger for delivering the message that was asked for in the thread title.......the problem you really have is with the message itself....rail against that as much as you want.... but not me for just posting it...

And why do you think it is being anti-atheist to address an atheist as an atheist?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are also agreeing with it.

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but I don't believe the Bible holds any moral authority and I don't believe it is the word of god or inspired by god, because I do not believe the Biblical god exists. (That's not to say I think the Bible doesn't contain any words of wisdom or value at all). I think if we want to determine if something is right or wrong we need to look at it critically, logically, weigh out the advantages or disadvantages, determine if the behavior causes harm or not, etc. In other words, I think we should determine such things for ourselves (and I think we actually do.)

Thank you. My parents are amazing people and I have them to thank for the person I am (or try to be).
I just think if everybody were kinder and less judgmental toward each other, the world would be a better place to live for everybody. We're all in this together.

Yes, I was raised to live my life according to the teachings of scripture.....and as a result I have continued to try to the best of my ability to do that consistently. I have explained many times in this thread that I wish homosexuals all the best personally....and that I am not posting the bible passages condemning homosexuality to insult them....I have posted them as that is the honest answer in response to the thread title question...

Unfortunately the world is not heaven and we humans are forever facing challenges of one sort or another and I agree we should all try to treat each other respectfully and kindly....The test comes when we meet those with whom we disagree absolutely on some subject or another...it is here I always try to find an understanding where if we can't agree, we can at least agree to disagree.. I am not one of those people who operate on the principle of....if you are not for me, you are against me...I am always open to an agreement to disagree respectfully..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So what parts are you saying apply to gentiles then? If you're saying Leviticus applies to gentiles, then how can you say the parts about wearing mixed fabrics only apply to Jews but the parts about homosexuality apply to everyone? It sounds contradictory.

I understand the relevant passage in Acts to mean that the minutiae of Jewish religious culture were not required of Christian gentiles, but the main moral teachings were....particularly as exemplified in the ten commandments.. Regardless, Christian teaching regarding homosexuality is also in the NT, and it carries on from Leviticus in the same theme as we see in Romans 1:26-27 .. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ... 1 Timothy 1:10 .

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I understand the relevant passage in Acts to mean that the minutiae of Jewish religious culture were not required of Christian gentiles, but the main moral teachings were....particularly as exemplified in the ten commandments..

The ten commandments don't mention homosexuality.