Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ben Dhyan]

Well I'm happy to hear that. To me, sexual orientation is but one tiny facet of what makes up a person. It really doesn't even come into play for me as I feel like a person's sexual orientation really isn't even my business.


I try to always stay open to agreement to respectfully disagree as well. Sometimes that's about as far as you can get with some things. Like in this conversation, for example.

I agree.... it really is a matter of being in the business of looking after our own life.....as a Christian....the taking the beam out of our own eye first....

Yes...I too think that we have gone as far as we can go.....so until next time we cross swords....thank you and peace be with you..

 

[Draka]

Christianity does not cherry pick and exclude the writings of Paul because he spoke of homosexuality as a sin.....as a homosexual, you have obvious reasons to be critical of Paul, and thus you are biased....but that's ok, I don't mind....

Out of curiosity, what do you think is my excuse when it comes to standing against your bible-based beliefs about homosexuality?

I am not an atheist.
I am a theist.

I am not a homosexual.
I am a heterosexual.

I am a married, stay-at-home mom, Girl Scout volunteer, busing my kids around to Girl Scouts, 4-H, Lego clubs, science clubs, library days, and more. Not gay. Not atheist. What is my excuse? My motivation for debating against bible driven discrimination and hatred?

Time and again you discount what some have had to say here because they are an atheist, or because they are gay. How do you discount me then?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Out of curiosity, what do you think is my excuse when it comes to standing against your bible-based beliefs about homosexuality?

I am not an atheist.
I am a theist.

I am not a homosexual.
I am a heterosexual.

I am a married, stay-at-home mom, Girl Scout volunteer, busing my kids around to Girl Scouts, 4-H, Lego clubs, science clubs, library days, and more. Not gay. Not atheist. What is my excuse? My motivation for debating against bible driven discrimination and hatred?

Time and again you discount what some have had to say here because they are an atheist, or because they are gay. How do you discount me then?

Fine...so you are a theist....may I ask the religion of your theism?

 

[Draka]

Fine...so you are a theist....may I ask the religion of your theism?

Ah, so that you may try to find some fault with it as to being against the bible? Nope. Don't claim any particular religion. Spiritual will just have to do for now. And being spiritual I know that we are all one. One people, one energy, one life. We all have the same feelings, emotions, desires, pains, heartaches, wants, needs, and more. I know that to treat people fairly and equally is to treat them with love and acceptance. Beauty and love is in all. Spiritual growth is looking beyond, knowing that our differences are not bad things, but our beauty. We learn from each other, grow from each other, and we cannot do that if we discriminate against each other. Judge each other. Harm each other. These are not spiritual things to do, but petty things of the physical.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ah, so that you may try to find some fault with it as to being against the bible? Nope. Don't claim any particular religion. Spiritual will just have to do for now. And being spiritual I know that we are all one. One people, one energy, one life. We all have the same feelings, emotions, desires, pains, heartaches, wants, needs, and more. I know that to treat people fairly and equally is to treat them with love and acceptance. Beauty and love is in all. Spiritual growth is looking beyond, knowing that our differences are not bad things, but our beauty. We learn from each other, grow from each other, and we cannot do that if we discriminate against each other. Judge each other. Harm each other. These are not spiritual things to do, but petty things of the physical.

That's fine...you should not be so fearful that others may find fault with it....if you have a light, you should not hide it.. Perhaps you feel this way because you judge and find fault in others' religions....and therefore expect that others may do the same to your's?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

you should not be so fearful that others may find fault with it

Do you not realize you have been judging and finding fault with everyone who holds views contrary to yours? And it's not just an "I don't agree." You've been calling other views wrong, bad, evil, unhealthy, twisted, and have even so boldly stated that people have no idea what they are talking about. You talk about the mote in your eye, well, you really need to have someone remove the gargantuan mote in your own eye before calling out the splinter in someone else's.
Your claims are so arrogant that you even dismiss spiritual atheists, and claim they know nothing, even though you've proven you know very little outside of your own religion.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you not realize you have been judging and finding fault with everyone who holds views contrary to yours? And it's not just an "I don't agree." You've been calling other views wrong, bad, evil, unhealthy, twisted, and have even so boldly stated that people have no idea what they are talking about. You talk about the mote in your eye, well, you really need to have someone remove the gargantuan mote in your own eye before calling out the splinter in someone else's.
Your claims are so arrogant that you even dismiss spiritual atheists, and claim they know nothing, even though you've proven you know very little outside of your own religion.

Fine....so show me where I have called anyone's view....evil, twisted, bad, etc..?

 

[Draka]

That's fine...you should not be so fearful that others may find fault with it....if you have a light, you should not hide it.. Perhaps you feel this way because you judge and find fault in others' religions....and therefore expect that others may do the same to your's?

I'm not fearful of you finding fault with "it", I simply don't have "it". I was intoning that if you were hoping to tear down and dismiss me based upon some label "nope" you weren't going to be able to as I have none. I don't have a label, I wear many partial ones that all coalesce into one "thing" that is my faith. My religion is my own and it doesn't bear a name I can simply tell you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not fearful of you finding fault with "it", I simply don't have "it". I was intoning that if you were hoping to tear down and dismiss me based upon some label "nope" you weren't going to be able to as I have none. I don't have a label, I wear many partial ones that all coalesce into one "thing" that is my faith. My religion is my own and it doesn't bear a name I can simply tell you.

I understand....but nevertheless, your preconception that may be I was hoping to 'tear down and dismiss' whatever about your belief means that you judge me to be like you... I mean you have no qualms about bad mouthing other people's religious beliefs and traditions.....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fine....so show me where I have called anyone's view....evil, twisted, bad, etc..?

Your post regarding atheists who accept a "transcended" state and work towards it is a good example.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

your preconception that may be I was hoping to 'tear down and dismiss' whatever about your belief means that you judge me to be like you...

The thing is, you have been "tearing down and dismissing" things presented to you that you don't agree with. Really, you seem like a very typical Christian, and that is not, at all, a compliment. If you want to see someone who is more like Christ, someone who displays the love, tolerance, and acceptance of Christ, read up on the posts of members like Deidra. You don't see her judging and condemning and insisting how people are wrong, but rather getting along, enjoying company, and leading by a positive example - as Christ did - rather than cold shoulders and condemning and damning.

 

[Draka]

I understand....but nevertheless, your preconception that may be I was hoping to 'tear down and dismiss' whatever about your belief means that you judge me to be like you... I mean you have no qualms about bad mouthing other people's religious beliefs and traditions.....

No, I have no qualms with bad mouthing bullspit. Hateful bigoted crap. Not all Christians spout that filth. You have been tearing down and dismissing people and faiths and orientations not only here, but in other threads as well. It is what you do. Not I. And see here, you can't find a label upon me that you like to argue against so now you must just accuse me of doing exactly what it is that you do. Funny that the worst you can come up with to tear me down are your very own habits. Kinda sad.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your post regarding atheists who accept a "transcended" state and work towards it is a good example.

So where is the evil?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The thing is, you have been "tearing down and dismissing" things presented to you that you don't agree with. Really, you seem like a very typical Christian, and that is not, at all, a compliment. If you want to see someone who is more like Christ, someone who displays the love, tolerance, and acceptance of Christ, read up on the posts of members like Deidra. You don't see her judging and condemning and insisting how people are wrong, but rather getting along, enjoying company, and leading by a positive example - as Christ did - rather than cold shoulders and condemning and damning.

It is the bible teaching that does all these things you blame me for....I am a simple messenger...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, I have no qualms with bad mouthing bullspit. Hateful bigoted crap. Not all Christians spout that filth. You have been tearing down and dismissing people and faiths and orientations not only here, but in other threads as well. It is what you do. Not I. And see here, you can't find a label upon me that you like to argue against so now you must just accuse me of doing exactly what it is that you do. Funny that the worst you can come up with to tear me down are your very own habits. Kinda sad.

Good grief......you make these claims, but can you support them....which other faith have I dismissed and where have I done so...post the evidence. Read the thread title question and and reflect on what I had posted....it is directly from the bible...I am not responsible for it directly....blame the Abrahamic God or whatever..

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is the bible teaching that does all these things you blame me for....I am a simple messenger...

A messenger is not an automated robot. A messenger can take the message, and decide for themselves if it's good or not. Loyalty to kings and country and even god should not come before basic human decency. You may be a "messenger," but even a messenger can decide their message is not good, not worth upholding, and is not something they want to be associated with. But, should they decide they agree with the message, then they should be ready, prepared, and accepting that there will be those who will criticize the message, call it out for daring to unfairly judge and condemn, for the faults and errors it has, and for containing stuff that no decent person would agree with or consider moral. The message you claim to deliver and represent literally condones and affirms slavery, abortion, it says women are less than men, and it commands death for many different trivial "offenses." If the god you are a messenger of is really so loving and merciful, then why is one of the 10 Commandments not "thou shalt not own another human being as property?" Why is there nothing about "men and women are equal before the eyes of the Lord?" This is not there, but rather we have "women shall not speak in church or be in positions of authority above men," and that "nothing pure (men) can come from something impure (women)," and that giving birth to a male-child means a woman is unclean (which is a problem all of its own) for seven days, whereas giving birth to a female-child means the woman is unclean for 14 days. The Bible was written by men who were so obviously ignorant and unaware of the world that the ritual for when someone is cured of leprosy is to sling the blood of a dead bird all over the place, which is literally one of the last things you want to do for someone who is just getting over such an awful infection. And your message says that a consensual and loving relation between two men is an abomination. There is nothing evil, abominable, or bad with love. Love is a very precious and wonderful thing, and I can't even begin to fathom what sort of monster it takes to say it could ever be wrong.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

A messenger is not an automated robot. A messenger can take the message, and decide for themselves if it's good or not. Loyalty to kings and country and even god should not come before basic human decency. You may be a "messenger," but even a messenger can decide their message is not good, not worth upholding, and is not something they want to be associated with. But, should they decide they agree with the message, then they should be ready, prepared, and accepting that there will be those who will criticize the message, call it out for daring to unfairly judge and condemn, for the faults and errors it has, and for containing stuff that no decent person would agree with or consider moral. The message you claim to deliver and represent literally condones and affirms slavery, abortion, it says women are less than men, and it commands death for many different trivial "offenses." If the god you are a messenger of is really so loving and merciful, then why is one of the 10 Commandments not "thou shalt not own another human being as property?" Why is there nothing about "men and women are equal before the eyes of the Lord?" This is not there, but rather we have "women shall not speak in church or be in positions of authority above men," and that "nothing pure (men) can come from something impure (women)," and that giving birth to a male-child means a woman is unclean (which is a problem all of its own) for seven days, whereas giving birth to a female-child means the woman is unclean for 14 days. The Bible was written by men who were so obviously ignorant and unaware of the world that the ritual for when someone is cured of leprosy is to sling the blood of a dead bird all over the place, which is literally one of the last things you want to do for someone who is just getting over such an awful infection. And your message says that a consensual and loving relation between two men is an abomination. There is nothing evil, abominable, or bad with love. Love is a very precious and wonderful thing, and I can't even begin to fathom what sort of monster it takes to say it could ever be wrong.

When I read the bible, or any other religious teachings, or practice them, I have only one thing in mind...what and who I really am in the context of absolute existence? I am not into politics..period.. I am determined to understand what and who I am in the universal context in this life....what you do in private is not my business..but what is in the bible is my business and so I do not deny what I know for the sake of avoiding smears on my character...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

...I am not responsible for it directly....blame the Abrahamic God or whatever..

No, you are directly responsible for propagating prejudiced views and for the harm that they cause.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You don't see her judging and condemning and insisting how people are wrong, but rather getting along, enjoying company, and leading by a positive example - as Christ did - rather than cold shoulders and condemning and damning.

Indeed. There is nothing spiritual or Christian about describing somebody as an abomination.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, you are directly responsible for propagating prejudiced views and for the harm that they cause.

You are propagating anti-Christian views here....atheists do not have any right to impose their views on Christians....