Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[SkepticThinker]

Its not a matter of "being clean", it is a matter of whether your heart is right, you have repented of sins, and your faith is strong. I struggle at times with the faith part, nothing happens if you take communion when you might have these problems, it is simply a matter of honesty before God, and the rite is a demonstration of total commitment, total faith, total repentance, at that point in time. If you partake when you know you aren't right with God, then you are lying to God

So what do you care if other people are lying to god? Won't god be able to figure it out without your help?

 

[shmogie]

For member of the congregation to take communion in whatever condition is not my concern

 

[SkepticThinker]

For member of the congregation to take communion in whatever condition is not my concern

It certainly sounds like you think it is your concern.

 

[shmogie]

They're not lying, exactly. They are suppressing their natural tendencies in order to be "normal" or to fit into a world that says they are sinners. Because they've been made to feel like there is something wrong with them. I don't blame them at all. I blame the people who make them feel that way.

Bull, and double bull, they sought out the church, and they were living the homosexual lifestyle, free of gult They weren't shamed into anything. A man says he has changed and is happy and that goes against your pat explanation of the world, since you dare not accuse the changed man for shattering your smug draconian illusions , you fall back on, it is somebody else's fault that he believes he has been changed, and he can't really be who he says he is, it's all wrong and it is somebody else's fault. What a great stinking pile of rotten offal your mind is

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I went to a Catholic wedding once, and when it came time to take communion, the priest said that only Catholics were allowed to come to the front and everyone else needs to just stay put. And I thought the same thing I'm thinking when I read your post here: Who is this guy to declare who may or may not come to god in this way? Maybe some non-Catholic is sitting there who could come to this god if only he were allowed the opportunity to take communion with everyone else who's deemed "fit" to do so? He basically was putting up a barrier to god based on his own prejudices. Now, I don't believe in any of this stuff but I do find this position rather judgmental and downright bizarre, and not really up to you or the priest or anyone but the person wishing to take communion. This god you believe in should be perfectly capable of determining who has a "clean and renewed conscience" all on his own.

It is odd. Instead of practicing Jesus' "open arms" policy, they are saying "you're not welcome."

 

[shmogie]

It certainly sounds like you think it is your concern.

Nope, a member of the congregation is totally responsible before God

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bull, and double bull, they sought out the church, and they were living the homosexual lifestyle, free of gult They weren't shamed into anything.

So are you calling my experiences bull? And, FYI, not everyone was given the option to seek out the church. Many of us are thrown into at birth. And frequently the Church does teach you to be ashamed of yourself, to bear deep psychological torments, and to just pretend everything is fine. The Church puts a ton of peer-pressure on people, and when someone else says they are cured, even if they are just really trying to believe it because they believe it's their only hope of eternal salvation, the next person hears this, and if he isn't cured, what does that mean? Is it not working for him? Does he lack faith? So, instead of being cast out, he says that he too is cured. And so says the next, and the next.
But they aren't any different. They are living a lie to appease their group, and fear of group rejection is something that tends to be rather strong in humans. My own experience reflects a myriad of studies that show that repressing yourself, trying to pray it away, it makes things so much worse, it's profoundly damaging to your psyche, and it does leave you longing for death, and even seeking it.
And I just went to church. I never sought out one of the "reparative" therapies.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Bull, and double bull, they sought out the church, and they were living the homosexual lifestyle, free of gult They weren't shamed into anything. A man says he has changed and is happy and that goes against your pat explanation of the world, since you dare not accuse the changed man for shattering your smug draconian illusions , you fall back on, it is somebody else's fault that he believes he has been changed, and he can't really be who he says he is, it's all wrong and it is somebody else's fault. What a great stinking pile of rotten offal your mind is

It's not bull. Please look into human psychology and the way these "treatment" facilities work. That is exactly what is going on.

Of course there is shame involved. Look at the way gay people are judged and marginalized in our society.

By the way, these treatments are condemned by medical and psychiatric organizations as harmful to individuals partaking in them. There have been investigations where they have turned up physical and mental abuse to the individuals partaking in these programs. And at least one of them was shut down by the person who founded the organization (who was gay) and he apologized to the LGBT community.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It is odd. Instead of practicing Jesus' "open arms" policy, they are saying "you're not welcome."

Right. It seems backwards to me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bull, and double bull, they sought out the church, and they were living the homosexual lifestyle, free of gult They weren't shamed into anything. A man says he has changed and is happy and that goes against your pat explanation of the world, since you dare not accuse the changed man for shattering your smug draconian illusions , you fall back on, it is somebody else's fault that he believes he has been changed, and he can't really be who he says he is, it's all wrong and it is somebody else's fault. What a great stinking pile of rotten offal your mind is

People do tend to feel happy and satisfied with new life-changes, for awhile at least. Your approach does tend to score fairly high when short-term results are looked at. But when long-term results are looked at, your approach begins to crumble and clearly it just isn't working, not unless you consider increasing depression and risk of suicide as working.

 

[shmogie]

It is odd. Instead of practicing Jesus' "open arms" policy, they are saying "you're not welcome."

Catholics believe their version of communion is for Catholics. I have no problem with that, Jesus's open arms policy was for people to hear and understand the Gospel. He didn't hang out with whores, and robbers just because he wanted to discuss politics with them. He loved them and wanted to save them from themselves. The mechanism for that is the Gospel, and all that entails. He made it very clear that most would reject his message, and be lost. He instructed his followers yo give the message, and then move on if it were rejected. Communion is not an evangelizing method, it is a service performed for converted, believing, faithful members of the Congregation. If someone is serious about talking communion, there are many methods to have them understand what they are doing

 

[shmogie]

People do tend to feel happy and satisfied with new life-changes, for awhile at least. Your approach does tend to score fairly high when short-term results are looked at. But when long-term results are looked at, your approach begins to crumble and clearly it just isn't working, not unless you consider increasing depression and risk of suicide as working.

It is not my approach, I have nothing to do with it. I couldn't care less about what you consider emperical evidence of whatever, It would be best for you to take it up with them and tell them that God didn't change them, then warn them of all of your dire consequences if they do not give up their spouses and children. The ones I know would laugh in your face

 

[shmogie]

It's not bull. Please look into human psychology and the way these "treatment" facilities work. That is exactly what is going on. It's all

Of course there is shame involved. Look at the way gay people are judged and marginalized in our society.

By the way, these treatments are condemned by medical and psychiatric organizations as harmful to individuals partaking in them. There have been investigations where they have turned up physical and mental abuse to the individuals partaking in these programs. And at least one of them was shut down by the person who founded the organization (who was gay) and he apologized to the LGBT community.

I am not talking about treatment facilities, or indoctrination or anything of the like. I am talking about people who were exposed to the Gospel, studied and developed faith, very deep faith, and said one day " I have been changed by the power of God, he performed a miracle in my life". They weren't shamed, they weren't compelled God simply changed them I believe it, they believed it, and years later they still believe it. There is no room in your world for miracles of God, but that doesn't make them any less real.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Communion is not an evangelizing method, it is a service performed for converted, believing, faithful members of the Congregation. If someone is serious about talking communion, there are many methods to have them understand what they are doing

If someone who isn't Catholic is considering taking Catholic Communion, then the chances of them converting become much higher if you allow them to take Communion. It's not a method of evangelizing, but rather assurance that people who are even just considering are welcomed. Or that those who find comfort and assurance in the act can freely take of Communion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Bull, and double bull, they sought out the church, and they were living the homosexual lifestyle, free of gult They weren't shamed into anything. A man says he has changed and is happy and that goes against your pat explanation of the world, since you dare not accuse the changed man for shattering your smug draconian illusions , you fall back on, it is somebody else's fault that he believes he has been changed, and he can't really be who he says he is, it's all wrong and it is somebody else's fault. What a great stinking pile of rotten offal your mind is

Intruding.

This is a common but valid argument. If the tables were turned and thr Catholic Church told you you cannot be heterosexual what would you do?

This means you cannot marry.
This means you cannot be a friend to the one you wish to marry
This means you cannot take the sacrament of priesthood (if male) nor can you take the sacrament of marriage

This means that every other Christian will judge Who you are even though "you Did Nothing".

This means the Bible spits in your face calling you a label that does not apply to you.

How do you continue your walk with god if god is telling you you are something you are not?
--

I know a gay (someone mentally-spiritually-physically atracted to same gender) who stoped "being gay", married, and have two beautiful children.

Was he gay? Most likely. But like you, he turned from his "lifestyle" NOT attraction to lead a heterosexual marriage.

He defined His lifestyle by his sexual orientation and when he freed himself from his actions he felt he was free from sin.

Not all GBLTetc identify that way. I am lesbian and I was lesbian way before I dated my first girlfriend (real girlfriend not a one night stand or such none sense).

If I changed, I wouls be changing my "behavior". Like eating chocolate instead of vanilla (no pun). That doesnt mean I like vanilla. It just means I can live with this tastebuds for the betterment of my spiritual health AND I still like chocolate.

That is an analogy. I cant be straight no more than you can be Joe Smith beside you. How do you define yourself as a person?

Do you define yourself by who you are attracted to? If so, why?

That is how many GBLT feel from honest and harsh people who belittle them. Not for what they do. They can change lifestyles. But Who they are. They cant change who they love (not lust; not unconditional love) but the same love a husband and wife have.

The only person who can deny two christians to love each other is god. Why would he deny them love? Sin? Naw. Race? Naw. Poverty? Naw. He said neither jew or gentile; female or male; etc

Yet, body parts tend to make a marriage sacrament a sin.

Many people grow up men in womens bodies and the opposite. God has denied them (according to how the Church sees it) the sacraments of lovex marriage, and even priesthood because they feel in their CCC these human beings have a disorder. Yet, these same people like straight non transgender christians cry. We are not aliens to each other.

Now wonder many dont care for christianity. There are so many sins that actually worth being called sins but sexual attraction (god-christian attraction not lust) is Not one of them.

Sheesh.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I couldn't care less about what you consider emperical evidence of whatever,

Peer-reviewed science that has sound methodology. But not only that, I have my own experiences, experiences that reflect and mirror what tons of peer-reviewed science has determined. I knew it even before "science" caught on and started denouncing and condemning the practice.

It would be best for you to take it up with them and tell them that God didn't change them

Why would I do that?

The ones I know would laugh in your face

And the vast majority know I'm right. The ones I know see no reason to change themselves, and do not believe God has an issue with them. I even know a Priest who welcomed homosexuals and accepting of "their ways" back when there were far fewer affirming churches. And the very fact that we even have the term "affirming church" proves that your interpretation is not the only one, and it brings into question who is correct. It matters not to me, as I no longer practice, but I can state that the historical trend, especially recently, is for the church to become more progressive. I've seen more female priests/pastors sprout up over the years, I've heard of an increase in affirming churches, and today it's shocking enough to make headlines when a church flat-out refuses to let in a black person, unlike the case one and two centuries ago, when the practice was much more common and just as acceptable as not allowing gays into church. But, of course, no one bothers to take the effort to prevent a ******* from entering the congregation of the Lord, or even condemn them.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes. You do. Otherwise, you come up with weird and incorrect ideas, such as the bible condemns homosexuality.

Fine...you can pretend whatever......

 

[Ben Dhyan]

1) it's too important to just sweep under the rug.
2) the meaning is unclear -- especially as to how it relates to this time and culture.

Only in your mind....pretense..

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am not talking about treatment facilities, or indoctrination or anything of the like. I am talking about people who were exposed to the Gospel, studied and developed faith, very deep faith, and said one day " I have been changed by the power of God, he performed a miracle in my life". They weren't shamed, they weren't compelled God simply changed them I believe it, they believed it, and years later they still believe it. There is no room in your world for miracles of God, but that doesn't make them any less real.

And you're sure they faced no shame, or guilt, or marginalization or judgment for their sexual orientation throughout their life up until that moment?
Just judging from the things being said in this thread alone would make that a most likely "no."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you're sure they faced no shame, or guilt, or marginalization or judgment for their sexual orientation throughout their life up until that moment?

Well, another point going against him is all the anti-gay and "pray the gay away" leaders who have been caught with male prostitutes. Their own "medicine" didn't even work for them.