Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

Yes. You do. Otherwise, you come up with weird and incorrect ideas, such as the bible condemns homosexuality.

There are non so blind as those who will not see

 

[sojourner]

Ok...I understand you do not want homosexuals to feel guilty....but revising the meaning to represent the opposite of what it means is not the honest way. Why not just disregard it and leave it at that....

1) it's too important to just sweep under the rug.
2) the meaning is unclear -- especially as to how it relates to this time and culture.

 

[sojourner]

There are non so blind as those who will not see

Then take off your rose colored glasses and see the texts with clear eyes.

 

[shmogie]

Then take off your rose colored glasses and see the texts with clear eyes.

You are the one who is unable to understand clear and precise words correctly translated from the Greek, not I. Perhaps your glasses of denial and obfuscation should be removed, so you can see what is perfectly clear to hundreds of millions of people. Try it, it might sting, but the truth is always better than lies

 

[shmogie]

1) it's too important to just sweep under the rug.
2) the meaning is unclear -- especially as to how it relates to this time and culture.

Perfectly clear, and it relates to all times and cultures equally

 

[viole]

I have seen homosexuals become celibate because of their sincere faith, and I have seen them become happy Christian heterosexuals. I believe God works supernaturally in peoples lives. I have seen heroin addicts who have been through all kinds of "scientific" rehab programs who always re offended, who stole to get money for dope, totally given up on by society, living on the street with a needle almost perpetually in their arm, or back of their knees, or between their toes, anywhere to find a vein, change, virtually over night, who have been clean for years, and attribute their recovery to a miracle by God.......................................... Science does'nt study, catalog, or believe in miracles from God, perhaps they should

The question is where to start. There are multitudes of similar miraculous reports coming from different gods.

My Muslim friend, for instance, told me that Allah saved one of his friends from severe addiction. According to him, Allah resurrected him from an overdose and after the appearance of a bright light and a vision of (their) sacred book surrounded by stars, he never felt the need to drug himself, anymore.

Do you think that story makes Allah a bit more plausible?

Ciao

- viole

 

[shmogie]

Yes. You do. Otherwise, you come up with weird and incorrect ideas, such as the bible condemns homosexuality.

Ack !, polly wants a cracker, a cracker, polly wants a cracker !. The same empty meaningless words, over, and over, and over again, ad nauseum. It clearly does, and you are wrong. BTW, I posted the verses you were so eager to see, no response from you, no response, is a response, it is " I won't go there, I cant", so, with tail between your legs, you skedadle away. Sad, very, very sad. Ever read the words of Christ, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free."? I am beginning to sense more and more that you need to be set free. Facing the truth is the first step. I will pray for you

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have seen homosexuals become celibate because of their sincere faith, and I have seen them become happy Christian heterosexuals. I believe God works supernaturally in peoples lives.

People keep talking about these homosexuals who turn heterosexual with the power of prayer, but study, after study, after study, after study have all it's a dangerous therapy that does far more harm than good. I can add in my own anecdotal evidence and say that, yes, it's a life of misery praying for some "change" that never comes, how terrible it is waking up knowing you have to put on a show because your supposed to hide who you are because who you are is shameful, abominable, and isn't going to Heaven. It's no wonder I was tormented by nightmares of Hell!

I have seen heroin addicts who have been through all kinds of "scientific" rehab programs who always re offended, who stole to get money for dope, totally given up on by society, living on the street with a needle almost perpetually in their arm, or back of their knees, or between their toes, anywhere to find a vein, change, virtually over night, who have been clean for years, and attribute their recovery to a miracle by God.......................................... Science does'nt study, catalog, or believe in miracles from God, perhaps they should

I know people who recovered from addiction without god, or even another god all together. I've also seen those turning to god fail. If you say "'scientific' rehab" program, it probably means you haven't really looked into addiction treatment, because you obviously are not aware of the fact that there are many "scientific" rehab methods. What science does say, however, is that what will work tends to be very individualized. If someone is gung-ho about AA or other 12-step programs, it will probably work; if they aren't into it, it's probably not going to work. Cognitive therapy will work for those who can get behind it, but if not, it's not going to work. God has worked for those who get behind it, but not for those who just aren't feeling it.

 

[shmogie]

The question is where to start. There are multitudes of similar miraculous reports coming from different gods.

My Muslim friend, for instance, told me that Allah saved one of his friends from severe addiction. According to him, Allah resurrected him from an overdose and after the appearance of a bright light and a vision of (their) sacred book surrounded by stars, he never felt the need to drug himself, anymore.

Do you think that story makes Allah a bit more plausible?

Ciao

- viole

The story may be true.......................However, after 9/11 I made it my business to understand Islam. So, I studied the Koran and Hadith. I discovered it was a belief system, a political system, a system to control a persons life in every respect, straight from hell. Paul said "we struggle with powers and kingdoms and principalities not of this world" Islam is the antithesis of Christianity, and is and has been the mortal enemy of Christianity. Those powers and kingdoms have power, power to do good for evils sake. I know what I know of what mohammed wrote, and his history and that of his early followers, I don't speak from ignorance

 

[shmogie]

People keep talking about these homosexuals who turn heterosexual with the power of prayer, but study, after study, after study, after study have all it's a dangerous therapy that does far more harm than good. I can add in my own anecdotal evidence and say that, yes, it's a life of misery praying for some "change" that never comes, how terrible it is waking up knowing you have to put on a show because your supposed to hide who you are because who you are is shameful, abominable, and isn't going to Heaven. It's no wonder I was tormented by nightmares of Hell!

I know people who recovered from addiction without god, or even another god all together. I've also seen those turning to god fail. If you say "'scientific' rehab" program, it probably means you haven't really looked into addiction treatment, because you obviously are not aware of the fact that there are many "scientific" rehab methods. What science does say, however, is that what will work tends to be very individualized. If someone is gung-ho about AA or other 12-step programs, it will probably work; if they aren't into it, it's probably not going to work. Cognitive therapy will work for those who can get behind it, but if not, it's not going to work. God has worked for those who get behind it, but not for those who just aren't feeling it.

Well then, whatever works is good correct ? I am not talking about people in misery praying for a change because they have been shamed into something or another. I am talking about people who are actually changed and are very happy about it, as are their spouse and children. more than one, people, plural. Studies and studies and studies don't apply in cases like this. Heck, I knew a woman that was so riddled with cancer, that every oncologist she saw said she would die within 6 months, all of the studies said she would, she lived another thirty years

 

[viole]

The story may be true.......................However, after 9/11 I made it my business to understand Islam. So, I studied the Koran and Hadith. I discovered it was a belief system, a political system, a system to control a persons life in every respect, straight from hell. Paul said "we struggle with powers and kingdoms and principalities not of this world" Islam is the antithesis of Christianity, and is and has been the mortal enemy of Christianity. Those powers and kingdoms have power, power to do good for evils sake. I know what I know of what mohammed wrote, and his history and that of his early followers, I don't speak from ignorance

That is irrelevant. Even if Allah or His believers were so nasty, that does not reduce His chance of existing and performing miracles on His believers in the slightest. Being the antithesis of Christianity, does not entail being less plausible than Christianity, unless you beg the question.

So, do you think that that claim makes Allah any more plausible?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am not talking about people in misery praying for a change because they have been shamed into something or another.

For the GLB, T, and Q communities, such environments frequently, often, and regularly mean misery and suffering, deep psychological torments and anguish, trying to pray it away, waiting for reprieve, but things only get darker, more depressing, and life seems less worth living if it means so much pain.

I am talking about people who are actually changed and are very happy about it, as are their spouse and children.

That rarely happens. And when it does, very often they are bisexual, not homosexual.

Heck, I knew a woman that was so riddled with cancer, that every oncologist she saw said she would die within 6 months, all of the studies said she would, she lived another thirty years

With or without god, religion, or faith, cancers are prone to sometimes mysteriously going into remission or vanishing entirely.

 

[sojourner]

You are the one who is unable to understand clear and precise words correctly translated from the Greek, not I. Perhaps your glasses of denial and obfuscation should be removed, so you can see what is perfectly clear to hundreds of millions of people. Try it, it might sting, but the truth is always better than lies

The words aren't the issue. If you don't understand that then you have no dog in this hunt.

 

[sojourner]

Perfectly clear, and it relates to all times and cultures equally

If that's what you think you're woefully mistaken.

 

[gnostic]

To the OP:

To be perfectly honest with you...and everyone else, I am personally not FOR gays and lesbians, but I will not protest against or go against anyone who wish to follow this path, as long as they are consenting adults, as it is with heterosexual couples (about the "consenting" part).

Non-consenting is wrong, regardless if it is gay, hetro- or bi.

 

[sojourner]

Ack !, polly wants a cracker, a cracker, polly wants a cracker !. The same empty meaningless words, over, and over, and over again, ad nauseum. It clearly does, and you are wrong. BTW, I posted the verses you were so eager to see, no response from you, no response, is a response, it is " I won't go there, I cant", so, with tail between your legs, you skedadle away. Sad, very, very sad. Ever read the words of Christ, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free."? I am beginning to sense more and more that you need to be set free. Facing the truth is the first step. I will pray for you

I thought you had conceded that it does not. Or were you lying? Or are you lying now, because your posts are incongruent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If it quacks like a duck...

So heterosexuals engaging in what you consider homosexual acts are .... ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

God has made it clear that baptism is the outward demonstration of repentence and a changed heart. Cherished sin must be relinquished. A woman with 14 convictions for shoplifting in the previous 18 months must surely declare that that sin has been abandoned before baptism. Communion is a very serious thing, it is the most sacred and important of sacraments. One must approach it with a clean and renewed conscience. There have been times when I have not taken communion when I felt I wasn't right with God. Once again, a sinful condition not abandoned precludes participation

So how do you know whether someone who is homosexual who wishes to partake on communion has a "clean and renewed conscience?" Maybe that's why it's supposed to be left up to god to decide such things. If anyone wants to partake in communion, why do you think it's up to you to judge whether it's appropriate or not?

I went to a Catholic wedding once, and when it came time to take communion, the priest said that only Catholics were allowed to come to the front and everyone else needs to just stay put. And I thought the same thing I'm thinking when I read your post here: Who is this guy to declare who may or may not come to god in this way? Maybe some non-Catholic is sitting there who could come to this god if only he were allowed the opportunity to take communion with everyone else who's deemed "fit" to do so? He basically was putting up a barrier to god based on his own prejudices. Now, I don't believe in any of this stuff but I do find this position rather judgmental and downright bizarre, and not really up to you or the priest or anyone but the person wishing to take communion. This god you believe in should be perfectly capable of determining who has a "clean and renewed conscience" all on his own.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are free to believe whomever you choose. I would suggest however that you not call one of these folks a liar, no matter how much you believe they are. Perhaps your research is excluding the spiritual factor, and its ability to effect change in a person. None of the "arguments" are the same. The position is expressed in clear NT texts, that's it. No crossover with inter racial marrige

They're not lying, exactly. They are suppressing their natural tendencies in order to be "normal" or to fit into a world that says they are sinners. Because they've been made to feel like there is something wrong with them. I don't blame them at all. I blame the people who make them feel that way.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How do you know that it did not come from God?

How do you know it did?